DiscussMormonism.com

Water Dog wrote:

Themis wrote:This prediction is about as good as your other one about the church not even showing up to court. More accurately it would see less people who are active members. Maybe more who are not. He does seem to like the attention. If he leaves again I wonder how long before he wants back in.

I'd say my prediction was pretty close. Are you still butthurt about it?

Actually you were way off. You made a silly prediction most knew was not going to happen. I never supported what Tom was doing if you bothered to check, and I thought it would not go very far. I at least was certain the church would show up. It must hurt to be wrong so much.

I do not begrudge John however he chooses to leave, to stay, or to come back again. And I'm fine with him discussing it publicly. I think he's earned the right to do so. For years now he's been at the forefront in helping and advocating for doubting members and former members (who still have a connection to Mormonism via family, culture, job, community, etc.), and he has raised awareness (even among the highest echelons of Church leadership) of many difficult issues that face members today. And I think a lot of good has occurred thanks to John. His Mormonstories site and podcast comprise a veritable 'gold mine' of information and fantastic interviews; I hope they never go away and will be enjoyed by generations to come.

I can certainly understand John's leaving the Church; I think he tried his best to stay but one's innate reason and judgment often compels one to follow the path he/she feels is best, even if not the most comfortable or easy.

I think John did play a very large role (probably more indirectly than anything) in bringing about the demise of classic-FARMS from the Maxwell Institute in 2012. Greg Smith's "hit piece" on Dehlin and Mormonstories certainly was the catalyst for the eventual 'cleaning house' by Bradford (and deservedly so, in my opinion). Over a year ago I posted here my response to Smith's piece published at the Interpreter; I did so because I felt Smith's "review" unfairly maligned and attacked John's character and motives. Classic-FARMS had been publishing this type of "review" for a long time, but it hit rock bottom with Smith's paper. I remain firmly convinced that Bradford did the right thing in using that piss-poor paper by Smith to initiate the purge at MI.

John has accomplished a great deal in the world of Mormonism. He did so, in my opinion, at great personal sacrifice, for which I applaud him. But, his journey in, out and around Mormonism is like it is for most of us -- very unique and unpredictable, and I only wish him the best in whatever he chooses to do.

Jason Bourne wrote:
At my desk working but it is time to go home.

Here is where I am at church wise:

1: Currently no calling.

2: Both SP and bishop know I have do not have a LDS testimony of the founding truth claims and am skeptical about the existence of God and I don't believe any church is the one true church. I have spent time discussing this with both of them.

3: Still attend because my wife would like me to attend. I enjoy my friends through Church as well. My two best friends know where my head is at. My kids do, my dad does and my brothers do as well. Dad is not active and never has been during my life. Older brother active but a skeptic a bit. Younger brother not active. Mom passed away last year. She as not active.

4: Am extremely happy, happier than I even have been except I am working too damn much, and love exploring the beautiful wide world. Am reading more on evolution, other sciences... half way through Guns, Germs and Steel and fascinates. Also reading Dawkins The Greatest Show on Earth.


5: I told bishop I would do a calling that did not require me to teach every Sunday, testify, have leadership, etc. Greeter would be great!

And if Droopy were here he would say in some snarky and pretended pithy way "I saw this coming years ago." Then he would proceed to trash me. Guess he is a prophet! Just doing an end run around the droopster and saving him the trouble.

You must really love your wife. I respect that.

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dehlin is a whiny little bitch. he needs to go play in traffic.

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Dictated, but not read.

Bonified wrote:

Rollo Tomasi wrote:I think John did play a very large role (probably more indirectly than anything) in bringing about the demise of classic-FARMS from the Maxwell Institute in 2012. Greg Smith's "hit piece" on Dehlin and Mormonstories certainly was the catalyst for the eventual 'cleaning house' by Bradford (and deservedly so, in my opinion).

x2

He just plain outsmarted them. For whatever criticism can be laid upon John Dehlin for fitting/not fitting a desired mold, I think he (to borrow a phrase) hastened the demise of one of the more virulent strains of Mormon apologetics.

x3

Throughout history there have been cultural agitators who have dared to speak “truth to power”, who stand unafraid, who dare to stand naked, without the filter of anonymity, before that power and expose the raw truth to the world. Luther, Gandhi, King and Chaves come to mind. While the Mormon world is much smaller and the hoped change of little importance in the grand scale of human history it is important to those of us affected.

John’s agitation of the Mormon hierarchy paradigm, his exposure of institutionally directed whitewashing of church history , his spotlighting the churches lack of accountability and transparency, his fearless open questioning of authority completely blindsided Mormonism’s so called prophets, seers and revelators. He caught them completely unprepared in a new world were some random guy from Logan can challenge that authority by starting a podcast that has the audacity to actually ask questions and expect answers.

John became the voice for those within Mormonism’s spire of influence who had no voice; the disaffected, the LDS- LGBQT’s, its feminists and those struggling within mix-religion marriages. He actually gave a damn when the so called Church of Jesus Christ couldn’t care less. Not only was he their voice, he became their therapist, someone who actually “got it” and who understood the struggle within the culture. He was the voice that made us feel that we weren’t crazy after all for questioning the church.

Did he do it perfectly? No. Has he accomplished every change he’s hoped? Of course not…but he has made a difference…how many of us or those who are so quick to criticize him can say that we’ve made a difference on so great a scale within the small closed Mormon society. John has been that voice prodding Mormonism to carve out a small part of their tent for us...to allow for cultural Mormonism to exist side by side with faithful believing Mormons.

I for one will be forever thankful that I found Mormon Stories and John Dehlin that one day some 12 years ago when I was struggling to make sense of the fracture world of Mormonism. John was real, he was unafraid to challenge, to ask the difficult questions and demand truth from power.

Does anyone really think that if not for people like John the church would be making the subtle changes that it is making today? Would woman really be offering prayers in General Conference? Would the church have shifted its stance of homosexuality acknowledging nature over nurture? Would GA’s really be out conducting recue meeting in far flung corners of Mormonism if not for people like John?

John has been the annoying mosquito pestering church authorities, demanding accountability from an institution that demands unquestioning devotion and obedience of it's male hierarchy.

Thank you John…for all you have done for our community I personally wish you peace in where ever your life path takes you.

John Dehlin and a few others are helping to challenge the idea that doubt is a sin and the clear mark of the Adversary.

Change is not linear, and the Church has to save face. The game continues.