The Threat of New Order Mormons

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_beefcalf
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Re: The Threat of New Order Mormons

Post by _beefcalf »

Servant wrote:You mean not respond to him when I'm attacked - as I just did on another thread? Sorry, pal, I stick up for myself and for my faith and don't take kindly to rudeness.


Wow. You sound exactly like Jesus.

Except for his whole 'turn the other cheek' thing.

Except for that.
eschew obfuscation

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_Servant
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Re: The Threat of New Order Mormons

Post by _Servant »

beefcalf wrote:
Servant wrote:You mean not respond to him when I'm attacked - as I just did on another thread? Sorry, pal, I stick up for myself and for my faith and don't take kindly to rudeness.


Wow. You sound exactly like Jesus.

Except for his whole 'turn the other cheek' thing.

Except for that.



Did you never see this: Gal. 1: …7which is really not another; only there are some who are disturbing you and want to distort the gospel of Christ. 8But even if we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to what we have preached to you, he is to be accursed! 9As we have said before, so I say again now, if any man is preaching to you a gospel contrary to what you received, he is to be accursed!

Jesus was not a doormat: "…26"You blind Pharisee, first clean the inside of the cup and of the dish, so that the outside of it may become clean also. 27"Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you are like whitewashed tombs which on the outside appear beautiful, but inside they are full of dead men's bones and all uncleanness. 28"So you, too, outwardly appear righteous to men, but inwardly you are full of hypocrisy and lawlessness.…"

If you read the verse you quote about turning the other cheek in context, you'd see he was addressing the eye for and eye law the Jews had. He was saying that we should rather suffer an injustice than, for instance, rip out a person's eye. However, when a person is being persecuted for their faith, we are to "defend the faith once delivered to the saints," (Jude 3), not bow to our persecutors!
_moksha
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Re: The Threat of New Order Mormons

Post by _moksha »

Servant wrote:Why don't you go over to CARM sometime and meet some Christians? I think you'll be treated respectfully.


That sounds nice. What do all the Christians talk about over there? Is it sort of like an "I'm okay, you're okay" approach to the world?
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_Jesse Pinkman
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Re: The Threat of New Order Mormons

Post by _Jesse Pinkman »

Servant wrote:"My concern in this post is the true blue Mormon. Are new order Mormons justified in being hesitant to come out to them? While some saints will be welcoming and loving of all people who want to be affiliated with the church in any capacity, I think a great deal of regular saints feel threatened by new order Mormons, and as a result have less than charitable reactions." (source: http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/20 ... r-mormons/)

Are there any N.O. Mormons here, or is this forum basically Mormon hanger-ons who have a high opinion of their humor (or supposed intellect) and just like to goof around plus a few real Mormons who actually are "near TBMs" ?

If there are any N.O. Mormons here, I'd like to know if they believe in an actual God - and is their concept of God more closely aligned to the Christian view of an Omnipotent, Omnipresent, Omniscient God Who is Spirit, or the Mormon god who appears to be some kind of exalted human being from another planet (if you read Joseph Smith).

I'm wondering if Mormonism is undergoing any kind of transition in its theology (other than some kind of higher textual criticism placing God in the category of an Edomite deity), and is there a movement toward embracing a move orthodox view of Deity? There seems to be a new move to minimize the whole "exaltation" doctrine TBMs have so long cherished!


I am a NOM. About 10 years ago, I was going through a real crisis of faith, and when I first heard the term "cafeteria Mormon", I really identified with it. John Dehlin's PowerPoint presentation on "the Middle Way" had a really strong impression on me. Frankly, if it wasn't for that presentation, it is very likely that I would have left the Church altogether, so I will always be grateful to John for that.

If there are any N.O. Mormons here, I'd like to know if they believe in an actual God - and is their concept of God more closely aligned to the Christian view of an Omnipotent, Omnipresent, Omniscient God Who is Spirit, or the Mormon god who appears to be some kind of exalted human being from another planet (if you read Joseph Smith).


I do believe in an actual God. And I have always thought of God as a Heavenly Father. I am unsure of whether or not he is an Omnipresent spirit, or One who has a perfected body. I believe that there are just some mysteries that we won't know until we actually die and get to Heaven. What I do believe is that God will judge us all based on our hearts rather than whether or not we "dotted this i" or "crossed this t". I also don't think that He will separate families based on what denomination people chose to belong to in this life. My personal belief is that what is most important to God is how we love each other and how we treat each other.

I'm wondering if Mormonism is undergoing any kind of transition in its theology (other than some kind of higher textual criticism placing God in the category of an Edomite deity), and is there a movement toward embracing a move orthodox view of Deity? There seems to be a new move to minimize the whole "exaltation" doctrine TBMs have so long cherished!


I think that there is a lot more mainstreaming happening within the Church. President Hinckley made some tremendous strides in that direction. That is why you do see changes in the Gospel Essentials manual which, as you pointed out, diminish the strict exaltation doctrine that existed previously.
So you're chasing around a fly and in your world, I'm the idiot?

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_sock puppet
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Re: The Threat of New Order Mormons

Post by _sock puppet »

beefcalf wrote:
Servant wrote:You mean not respond to him when I'm attacked - as I just did on another thread? Sorry, pal, I stick up for myself and for my faith and don't take kindly to rudeness.


Wow. You sound exactly like Jesus.

Except for his whole 'turn the other cheek' thing.

Except for that.

Yeah, except for that!
_Jesse Pinkman
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Re: The Threat of New Order Mormons

Post by _Jesse Pinkman »

RockSlider wrote:
Servant wrote:Interestingly, when this board was mentioned on CARM, the TBMs said this place is fully of Atheists and Agnostics! You see how quickly Mormons turn on Mormons?


My guess is the majority of regular posters are agnostic or atheist.


Servant wrote:Is that just on this particular forum, and not the Celestial forum?


I think that there is a key group of posters who post in all three forums. In the Celestial forum, you might find a few more TBM's However, the forums are really labeled more for seriousness of subject matter, and the level of moderation, than they are geared toward those who post there. The Terrestrial Forum is really the "heart" of the board. It is where the majority of popular discussions involving Mormonism exist, and, unlike the Celestial Forum, has a minimal amount of moderation.
So you're chasing around a fly and in your world, I'm the idiot?

"Friends don't let friends be Mormon." Sock Puppet, MDB.

Music is my drug of choice.

"And that is precisely why none of us apologize for holding it to the celestial standard it pretends that it possesses." Kerry, MDB
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_Jesse Pinkman
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Re: The Threat of New Order Mormons

Post by _Jesse Pinkman »

Servant wrote:. Why don't you go over to CARM sometime and meet some Chrsitians? I think you'll be treated respectfully.


I have never been on CARM, but would really like to see what it is like. I just registered. How long does it usually take before they send an activation via email?
So you're chasing around a fly and in your world, I'm the idiot?

"Friends don't let friends be Mormon." Sock Puppet, MDB.

Music is my drug of choice.

"And that is precisely why none of us apologize for holding it to the celestial standard it pretends that it possesses." Kerry, MDB
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_Markk
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Re: The Threat of New Order Mormons

Post by _Markk »

moksha wrote:That sounds nice. What do all the Christians talk about over there? Is it sort of like an "I'm okay, you're okay" approach to the world?

Hi moksha,

Right or wrong here is the truth.

I post there, but be careful...many of the folks there are rude and ignorant of the LDS faith and especially the culture, not so much of what they say, but how they say it. LDS folks will be treated respectfully by a some, but many if not most will be talked down to. Most LDS folks there are just as rude. Moderation is similar to MAD, not quite as bad but there are folks there that are nanny's that will report anything you say they do not like, LoL...my post here will be reported or at the least spread through the gossip line ( I am not kidding).
Last edited by Guest on Sat May 17, 2014 5:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
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_ludwigm
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Re: The Threat of New Order Mormons

Post by _ludwigm »

Quasimodo wrote:
Servant wrote:nothing
I like mak, though I do not agree with any of his beliefs. I have never been a Mormon and we will always disagree on those points. Mak is a valuable member of this board and has been since before I became a member. His judicious and intellectual posts are a joy for me to read in contrast to some of the other TBMs that post here.
+1

for all of the sentences above.

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_maklelan
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Re: The Threat of New Order Mormons

Post by _maklelan »

Servant wrote:One thing you don't get is the meaning of the word "sectarianism."


No, Catherine, actually sectarianism and its definition has been a topic of study of mine for years, both in its ancient manifestations and its more modern ones. I'm afraid it is you who is uninformed in this instance.

Servant wrote:The reason you won't answer the simple question as to whether or not you believe in the resurrection of Christ is obvious to everybody.


Yes, because I've been forced to repeat it over and over again. Are you honestly so dense and naïve as to think I don't believe in the resurrection? I'm asking a sincere and honest question: are you honestly that ignorant?
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