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I am wondering how many souls must be sent to hell in order to prevent God from being a universalist.

The traditional usage of the word, at least in Calvinist circles, means those who believe Christ died for all and all men have the ability to choose to accept salvation though some may choose not to. Mormons definitely fall into being one of the groups of people who believe that sort of universalism.

huckelberry wrote:I am wondering how many souls must be sent to hell in order to prevent God from being a universalist.

The traditional usage of the word, at least in Calvinist circles, means those who believe Christ died for all and all men have the ability to choose to accept salvation though some may choose not to. Mormons definitely fall into being one of the groups of people who believe that sort of universalism.

People send themselves to Hell, my friend. God offers you a gift, but the majority of people spit on it.

huckelberry wrote:I am wondering how many souls must be sent to hell in order to prevent God from being a universalist.

The traditional usage of the word, at least in Calvinist circles, means those who believe Christ died for all and all men have the ability to choose to accept salvation though some may choose not to. Mormons definitely fall into being one of the groups of people who believe that sort of universalism.

Thank you for confirming what I said.

Servant wrote:People send themselves to Hell, my friend. God offers you a gift, but the majority of people spit on it.

From where does the evil in each of us come? Do not Christians believe that God created man?

God created man.

Man has the capacity to be evil, therefore God created us evil.

He threatens us with eternal punishment for being evil.

If your belief system wasn't so obviously silly, it would be frightening.

beefcalf wrote:

Servant wrote:People send themselves to Hell, my friend. God offers you a gift, but the majority of people spit on it.

From where does the evil in each of us come? Do not Christians believe that God created man?

God created man.

Man has the capacity to be evil, therefore God created us evil.

He threatens us with eternal punishment for being evil.

If your belief system wasn't so obviously silly, it would be frightening.

Men turned away from God and "fell," and not upward as the Mormons teach. The Fall of men was accompanied by the fall of nature, as well. Christ came to restore the Kingdom of God, that each man or woman who places their faith in Christ might become a Child of God by faith. You'll find this here:

John 1: "9 The true light that gives light to everyone was coming into the world. 10 He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him. 11 He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him. 12 Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— 13 children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God."

The Mormon Church has lied to you by telling you that everbody is a child of God, born of polygamous, exalted beings on a planet near Kolob. The Bible teaches, on the other hand, that it is only those who receive Christ who become children of God.

Let the mocking begin!

Servant wrote:Men turned away from God and "fell," and not upward as the Mormons teach. The Fall of men was accompanied by the fall of nature, as well. Christ came to restore the Kingdom of God, that each man or woman who places their faith in Christ might become a Child of God by faith. You'll find this here:

John 1: "9 The true light that gives light to everyone was coming into the world. 10 He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him. 11 He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him. 12 Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— 13 children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God."

The Mormon Church has lied to you by telling you that everbody is a child of God, born of polygamous, exalted beings on a planet near Kolob. The Bible teaches, on the other hand, that it is only those who receive Christ who become children of God.

Let the mocking begin!

Why does man even have the capacity to be evil? Why does man even have the capability to turn away from God?

You claim your God is perfect. How can a perfect God create something that is imperfect?

beefcalf wrote:How can a perfect God create something that is imperfect?

That perfect god wants objects to torture them for their builtin attributes.


From "Monday Begins on Saturday" by Boris and Arkady Strugatsky:

Footsteps broke the silence and a pale Roman entered with bared teeth. Snapping his fingers, he created a Vibegallo double. Next, he seized it with unholy joy by the chest, shook it rapidly, grabbed it by the beard and jerked it with passionate might several times, calmed down, dissolved the double, and went back into the office.

Legend:
- Roman and Vibegallo are workmates in the "Scientific Research Institute of Sorcery and Wizardry"
- that exalted scientists can create by word many things, among others doubles (golems? zombies?), primitive living beings to perform simple tasks

zackly, ludwig.

I'm not saying gods cannot (or do not) exist.

It is easy, however, to see that the God of Christianity does not exist as they describe him.

They say he is infinite in his power, infinite in his knowledge and infinite in his goodness. They say he loves each of us. They say he is just.

He created humans. Humans are sometimes evil. Either god intended for us to (sometimes) be evil, in which case he is not infinitely good, or he was not powerful enough to create us fully perfect and we are evil despite his desire that we be purely good, in which case he is not infinitely powerful, or he was powerful enough to create us without evil but lacked the knowledge to do so, making him not infinitely knowledgable.

According to Christians, the finite amount of time we live on earth will earn each of us a reward (or punishment) which is infinite. This is akin to a father telling his 9-year son "You have 2 seconds to clean up this messy room. If it is not clean by the end of those 2 seconds, you will get a spanking that will last 50 years", or a mother telling her daughter "sweetie, if you wash the dishes, I will buy you a brand new Mercedes Benz for each of your next 50 birthdays".

The Christian god as they describe him is incoherent. He doesn't exist.

Jesus save us from your followers.

Especially Servant.

Kittens_and_Jesus wrote:Servant,

What does Matt 25 say?

What is the key message of that chapter?

Are you the Director, or are you another actor, just like the rest of us?

Are you here to tell everyone how they should act, how they should think, and how they should believe?

Are you in charge of straightening people out, or is God in charge of the show?

When He (the least of them) was naked, did you clothe Him?

When He (the least of them) was in jail, did you visit Him?

When He (the least of them) was hungry, did you feed Him?

You mock and condemn the supposed sinners here, Jesus dined with them and taught them.

Bump.

Answer me.