DiscussMormonism.com

Runtu wrote:Well, we disagree, then. I think it's obvious that LDS theology is not orthodox or mainstream theology, but it is a Christian theology. I've always thought that a just God wouldn't care if you got the details wrong, as long as you trusted in the Savior to save you from sin.

I think about my wife. Does she believe she can have the same power and knowledge that God does? I don't know that she's ever thought of it. I go back to my Mormon days, and I don't think I ever believed that. Does she believe she can earn or pay for Christ's suffering? No, and neither did I when I was a believing Mormon. In fact, I don't know many Mormons who believe they earn or pay for Christ's suffering, though I'm told by several Christians that Mormons are supposed to believe that.

Oh, well. I'm still trying to figure out if I believe in God at all, so worrying about who is a real Christian isn't high on my list of priorities.

Markk wrote:
Hi John,

And your post is my point in my last post...I believe you do not believe that you can have the same power and knowledge of God. I believe you, and your wife, do not believe you can not buy or earn Christ's sufferings...I believe that with all my heart...but LDS theology teaches it, and demands it...and that is why I wrote in my last post that it is LDS "theology" that is not Christian, and God knows who is, and who is not a Christian. I promise I will never judge you and your heart, I have enough problems figuring out my own...I know what it is capable of in thought and action, and it is not pretty, especially in 30 years ago.

Someday maybe we can talk a little more and I will share some of that crap that is in my closet, please don't think I am some kind of saint, and I have it all figured out, I don't. Being a Christian is trusting in Him to do everything.

Go back and read my last post again, I think way may agree more than we may think.

Runtu wrote:

Markk wrote:
Hi John,

And your post is my point in my last post...I believe you do not believe that you can have the same power and knowledge of God. I believe you, and your wife, do not believe you can not buy or earn Christ's sufferings...I believe that with all my heart...but LDS theology teaches it, and demands it...and that is why I wrote in my last post that it is LDS "theology" that is not Christian, and God knows who is, and who is not a Christian. I promise I will never judge you and your heart, I have enough problems figuring out my own...I know what it is capable of in thought and action, and it is not pretty, especially in 30 years ago.

Someday maybe we can talk a little more and I will share some of that crap that is in my closet, please don't think I am some kind of saint, and I have it all figured out, I don't. Being a Christian is trusting in Him to do everything.

Go back and read my last post again, I think way may agree more than we may think.

I'm not worried about you judging my heart or anyone else's. I do think that you overstate LDS doctrine and theology, but then I think it probably has to do with viewing things through an Evangelical prism. I don't see the "earning salvation" stuff in LDS theology, but I do agree that the LDS church does teach that humans can become exactly like God. I'm just not sure very many people actually believe that.

Either way, as I said, I'm trying to find reasons to believe in God at all these days, and I'm having a hard time with it.

Markk wrote:

Hi John,

I came to my conclusions as a Mormon, before I was a evangelical...no way around that.

JFS once wrote that 'he wished that Jesus could save us but He can't, we have to do it on our own'...paraphrase. There are many teaching on merit and duty like this I could not get away from...there is a verse in the Bible that says, again paraphrasing...' if you work it is counted as debt and not Grace...' for me that trumped all the merit and duty and works I was suppose to do, that I couldn't.

Megacles wrote:Hi there, Markk. I hope you don't mind me jumping in here.

I seems to me that the Bible says whatever its readers want it to say. For example, you paraphrase something about works equaling debt and not grace; Mormons like myself point to where James says faith without works is dead. Among other issues the saved-by-grace-alone philosophy has (in my view), it seems to be that the Bible supports both it and saved-by-grace+works.

Megacles wrote:

Hi there, Markk. I hope you don't mind me jumping in here.

I seems to me that the Bible says whatever its readers want it to say. For example, you paraphrase something about works equaling debt and not grace; Mormons like myself point to where James says faith without works is dead. Among other issues the saved-by-grace-alone philosophy has (in my view), it seems to be that the Bible supports both it and saved-by-grace+works.

Rom 4:4
Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt.

Markk wrote:

Servant wrote:The only people who go to Hell are those who reject the Gospel. God sends no person to Hell, they send themselves. I believe there are some people in the Mormon Church who are Christians, and who for various reasons find themselves in the LDS, but who love God. You see, all who God calls, will come to Jesus. It's not our place to tell anybody if they are a sheep - God alone knows His sheep, and they follow Jesus' voice, and a stranger they do not follow.

I believe there are some people in the Mormon Church who are Christians

Catherine,

LoL...Didn't you just scold me for saying this a few weeks ago?

Mark

Servant wrote:Works are the evidence of a saving faith and a regenerated spirit - works are not the means to salvation. That is what James is speaking of - he certainly is not saying that works are the means of regeneration.