DiscussMormonism.com

Posted: **Thu May 22, 2014 8:05 pm**

By the way, this is my beef with Servant. She doesn't realize that she is in fact the pot, bloviating ceaselessly on the Internetz about how black the kettle is.

Posted: **Fri May 23, 2014 1:08 am**

Paloma wrote:As Tobin wrote above, God looks on the heart.

Paloma, I know your heart is good, but me ain't no Tobin.
:wink:

Posted: **Fri May 23, 2014 2:30 am**

Tator wrote:
Paloma wrote:As Tobin wrote above, God looks on the heart.

Paloma, I know your heart is good, but me ain't no Tobin.

You 'sho ain't .... I'm not around all the time, but I do know that much!

(Sadly, I didn't know enough to avoid such a mistake, though!)

And thanks for the correction ... that post is duly edited!

Posted: **Fri May 23, 2014 3:02 am**

Markk,

I am sorry. I must have missed your previous post to me.

Markk wrote:
Hi Megacles,

No... you are not if you accept the Bible as your bench mark.

Which part of the Bible? James? Romans? The Bible does not, to my knowledge, ever state that by faith/grace alone we are saved. These words are always accompanied by something about works.

We are in agreement that humans do not have the capacity alone to save themselves, but where Mormonism perhaps departs is in the belief that it is possible to lose this great gift from God. Keeping commandments, as James says, is an action--a verb (to keep)--and therefore a work.

For example, Markk, if someone is saved in your particular denomination of Protestantism, and ten years later commits a heinous, violent crime, is that person still saved? I see two possible answers:

If you answer that he was saved until he committed the crime, then you limit God's ability to foresee into the future and thereby take away his omnipotence.
If you answer that he was never really saved, then you introduce the problem of one really knowing whether he or she is saved at any time.

The only way around this paradox, from my point of view, is the combination of grace and works bringing forth salvation. Mormonism or Catholicism are the only answers here.

Read John 3:16, and 18. And John 1:12,13 if you are interested in what evangelicals believe. Ask if you do not understand the context of my point.

I am quite familiar with what evangelicals believe, and no offense to you, but it makes absolutely no sense to me (see my comments above).

Believing is not a work...again as the Romans verse I gave you in my last post reads, in that Paul clearly explains the difference between works and belief. one is accounted for Grace, the other as debt.

If you are going to insist that believing in Christ is a work, then every LDS member that believes in Christ on the Sabbath, is breaking the Sabbath...unless they cease to believe on Sundays. Kind of a silly example, but very true using that logic.

No, believing is not a work. But, in Protestantism, we have to do more than simply believe. Otherwise, all Latter-day Saints would be automatically saved.

Posted: **Fri May 23, 2014 4:55 am**

Paloma wrote:As Tobin wrote above, God looks on the heart.

Tator wrote:Paloma, I know your heart is good, but me ain't no Tobin.

Paloma wrote:You 'sho ain't .... I'm not around all the time, but I do know that much!

(Sadly, I didn't know enough to avoid such a mistake, though!)

And thanks for the correction ... that post is duly edited!

You're a class act and I enjoy your posting.......interesting and some very intelligent people post here.

Posted: **Fri May 23, 2014 6:00 am**

Which part of the Bible? James? Romans? The Bible does not, to my knowledge, ever state that by faith/grace alone we are saved. These words are always accompanied by something about works.

Hi Megacles

Well, I gave you a verse in Romans, twice, that says "belief=Grace," and "works =debt." lets start there and we can go on to text that show belief without works? fair?

Rom 4:4,5
Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt. But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness,...

thanks
MG

Posted: **Fri May 23, 2014 9:09 am**

Sethbag wrote:... That there are secret handshakes and passwords that I will need to know in order to "pass the sentinels that guard the way into Heaven" is just the icing on the silliness cake.

Do You think about keys?

[#img] http://img1.indafoto.hu/10/1/57091_6715 ... 5344_m.jpg[/img]
Did You get the name of lockSMITH?

Posted: **Fri May 23, 2014 10:44 am**

ludwigm wrote:
Sethbag wrote:... That there are secret handshakes and passwords that I will need to know in order to "pass the sentinels that guard the way into Heaven" is just the icing on the silliness cake.
Do You think about keys?

Did You get the name of lockSMITH?

Posted: **Fri May 23, 2014 11:23 am**

This forum has parallels to mid-sixties Britain in that we have Rods and Mockers.

by the way, Megacles would make for a good MD&D board moderator name.

Posted: **Fri May 23, 2014 2:53 pm**

This is "Servants" latest saying, and she wonders why I say she posts crap...Catherine...They may be sincerely deceived young men and women, but hardly parasites. I hope she does not ever do a thread on LDS and Prozac, in that my gut feeling is that it would be very hypocritical.

Mormon missionaries are parasites....

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