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Markk wrote:This is "Servants" latest saying, and she wonders why I say she posts crap...Catherine...They may be sincerely deceived young men and women, but hardly parasites. I hope she does not ever do a thread on LDS and Prozac, in that my gut feeling is that it would be very hypocritical.

Mormon missionaries are parasites....

Full context post 318

Markk wrote:This is "Servants" latest saying, and she wonders why I say she posts crap...Catherine...They may be sincerely deceived young men and women, but hardly parasites. I hope she does not ever do a thread on LDS and Prozac, in that my gut feeling is that it would be very hypocritical.

Mormon missionaries are parasites....

Full context post 318

Megacles wrote:Which part of the Bible? James? Romans? The Bible does not, to my knowledge, ever state that by faith/grace alone we are saved. These words are always accompanied by something about works.

Markk wrote:Hi Megacles

Well, I gave you a verse in Romans, twice, that says "belief=Grace," and "works =debt." lets start there and we can go on to text that show belief without works? fair?

Megacles wrote:

Megacles wrote:Which part of the Bible? James? Romans? The Bible does not, to my knowledge, ever state that by faith/grace alone we are saved. These words are always accompanied by something about works.

Markk wrote:Hi Megacles

Well, I gave you a verse in Romans, twice, that says "belief=Grace," and "works =debt." lets start there and we can go on to text that show belief without works? fair?

I do not know if that is fair, Markk. It seems like you are selecting one very specific verse--out of context--on which to build your entire argument, while I am asking if the Bible generally speaks about being saved by grace alone.

A verse here or there might support your argument, but let us not fall into something that that might eventually resemble a base rate bias.

Ceeboo wrote:Ceeboo says......

What can be found at the very core of what Jesus taught while amongst us on earth?

Love
Compassion
Helping
Forgiveness
Humility
Humbleness
Patience
Understanding

For anyone trying to follow his example/teachings - the attempt to be Christ-like (yes, we all fail miserably at times), I would suggest that they are Christians.

for what it's worth, I have engaged several Mormons over the years who I consider my Christian Brothers and Sisters (I've told a few that I think Mormonism is Christianity on steroids). I consider them Christian not because of the church they go to on Sunday, but because of how they treat their fellow human beings. MercynGrace (over at the MDDB) is a great example of what I'm trying to suggest.

In short, I think the Christian churches/religions are loaded with people who loudly proclaim (demand in many cases) the personal privilege and authority of labeling who is Christian and who is not.
Unfortunately, in my opinion, the cement they often use to wildly apply these labels on and across individual human beings (as well as entire groups of human beings) is cement that they have mixed together, using ingredients that they chose to place in the wheel-barrel. Perhaps, this is why the cement is weak and thus has so many challenges in the binding process.

in my opinion, we "Christians" all ought to throw our cement and wheel-barrels away and replace them with water and wheel-chairs....just in case we cross paths with someone who is thirsty and/or could really use a lift.

Peace,
Ceeboo

14 What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him?
15 If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food,
16 and one of you says to them, “Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,” but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit?
17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

18 But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without your[a] works, and I will show you my faith by my[b] works.
19 You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble!
20 But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead?[c]
21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar?
22 Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect?
23 And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.”[d] And he was called the friend of God.
24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.
25 Likewise, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out another way?
26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

Gunnar wrote:

Ceeboo wrote:Ceeboo says......

What can be found at the very core of what Jesus taught while amongst us on earth?

Love
Compassion
Helping
Forgiveness
Humility
Humbleness
Patience
Understanding

For anyone trying to follow his example/teachings - the attempt to be Christ-like (yes, we all fail miserably at times), I would suggest that they are Christians.

for what it's worth, I have engaged several Mormons over the years who I consider my Christian Brothers and Sisters (I've told a few that I think Mormonism is Christianity on steroids). I consider them Christian not because of the church they go to on Sunday, but because of how they treat their fellow human beings. MercynGrace (over at the MDDB) is a great example of what I'm trying to suggest.

In short, I think the Christian churches/religions are loaded with people who loudly proclaim (demand in many cases) the personal privilege and authority of labeling who is Christian and who is not.
Unfortunately, in my opinion, the cement they often use to wildly apply these labels on and across individual human beings (as well as entire groups of human beings) is cement that they have mixed together, using ingredients that they chose to place in the wheel-barrel. Perhaps, this is why the cement is weak and thus has so many challenges in the binding process.

in my opinion, we "Christians" all ought to throw our cement and wheel-barrels away and replace them with water and wheel-chairs....just in case we cross paths with someone who is thirsty and/or could really use a lift.

Peace,
Ceeboo

Wow Ceeboo! This is the best post I've seen from you yet! I have never heard anyone state it better!

SteelHead wrote:For Markk

14 What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him?
15 If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food,
16 and one of you says to them, “Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,” but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit?
17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

18 But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without your[a] works, and I will show you my faith by my[b] works.
19 You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble!
20 But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead?[c]
21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar?
22 Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect?
23 And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.”[d] And he was called the friend of God.
24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.
25 Likewise, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out another way?
26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

SteelHead wrote:Argument? I don't have one. To me the whole notion of sin and redemption from sin via the sacrifice of animals or a human/deity is a ridiculous notion, regardless if said redemption is via faith & grace or faith & works. It is all nonsense to me.