Servant says...

[_SteelHead]

As noted, just throwing the standard Mormon comeback into the fray.

[_Markk]

As noted, just throwing the standard Mormon comeback into the fray.

LoL...You can take the boy out of Mormonism, but you can not take the Mormonism out of the boy?

Real Question...

I assume you are a atheist, and as such...do you still feel the urge, or duty or need...to defend Mormonism or the Mormon.

As a evangelical I feel the need to defend the Mormon against hateful talk or ignorant accusations. I don't feel that way about their doctrine or historical brush overs, but I do as a people and culture.

Does that makes sense?

Thanks
MG

[_SteelHead]

I see little difference in the position of either side. The differences revolve mostly around interpretation of passages of the Bible, which I view as mythology. I will point out to folks such as Servant that their position is really no better than that of the Mormons, just different. Neither is tenable.

[_Markk]

I see little difference in the position of either side. The differences revolve mostly around interpretation of passages of the Bible, which I view as mythology. I will point out to folks such as Servant that their position is really no better than that of the Mormons, just different. Neither is tenable.

Hi SH,
I don't think you understood my question...forget theology, or positions, or sides for a moment...as a exmormon, do you still feel or have the desire or instinct to protect your own...so to speak?

thanks
MG

[_SteelHead]

No. You've seen me critical of the Mormon position all over this forum.

[_Markk]

No. You've seen me critical of the Mormon position all over this forum.

I'm not talking about a "position?" O'well

[_Ceeboo]

Sup Gunnar!

Ceeboo says......

What can be found at the very core of what Jesus taught while amongst us on earth?

Love
Compassion
Helping
Forgiveness
Humility
Humbleness
Patience
Understanding

For anyone trying to follow his example/teachings - the attempt to be Christ-like (yes, we all fail miserably at times), I would suggest that they are Christians.

for what it's worth, I have engaged several Mormons over the years who I consider my Christian Brothers and Sisters (I've told a few that I think Mormonism is Christianity on steroids). I consider them Christian not because of the church they go to on Sunday, but because of how they treat their fellow human beings. MercynGrace (over at the MDDB) is a great example of what I'm trying to suggest.

In short, I think the Christian churches/religions are loaded with people who loudly proclaim (demand in many cases) the personal privilege and authority of labeling who is Christian and who is not.
Unfortunately, in my opinion, the cement they often use to wildly apply these labels on and across individual human beings (as well as entire groups of human beings) is cement that they have mixed together, using ingredients that they chose to place in the wheel-barrel. Perhaps, this is why the cement is weak and thus has so many challenges in the binding process.

in my opinion, we "Christians" all ought to throw our cement and wheel-barrels away and replace them with water and wheel-chairs....just in case we cross paths with someone who is thirsty and/or could really use a lift.

Peace,
Ceeboo

Wow Ceeboo! This is the best post I've seen from you yet! I have never heard anyone state it better!

Clearly, you haven't seen any of my posts about a raccoon evolving into a whale!

Peace,
Ceeboo

[_Gunnar]

Sup Gunnar!

Ceeboo says......

What can be found at the very core of what Jesus taught while amongst us on earth?

Love
Compassion
Helping
Forgiveness
Humility
Humbleness
Patience
Understanding

For anyone trying to follow his example/teachings - the attempt to be Christ-like (yes, we all fail miserably at times), I would suggest that they are Christians.

for what it's worth, I have engaged several Mormons over the years who I consider my Christian Brothers and Sisters (I've told a few that I think Mormonism is Christianity on steroids). I consider them Christian not because of the church they go to on Sunday, but because of how they treat their fellow human beings. MercynGrace (over at the MDDB) is a great example of what I'm trying to suggest.

In short, I think the Christian churches/religions are loaded with people who loudly proclaim (demand in many cases) the personal privilege and authority of labeling who is Christian and who is not.
Unfortunately, in my opinion, the cement they often use to wildly apply these labels on and across individual human beings (as well as entire groups of human beings) is cement that they have mixed together, using ingredients that they chose to place in the wheel-barrel. Perhaps, this is why the cement is weak and thus has so many challenges in the binding process.

in my opinion, we "Christians" all ought to throw our cement and wheel-barrels away and replace them with water and wheel-chairs....just in case we cross paths with someone who is thirsty and/or could really use a lift.

Peace,
Ceeboo

Wow Ceeboo! This is the best post I've seen from you yet! I have never heard anyone state it better!

Clearly, you haven't seen any of my posts about a raccoon evolving into a whale!

Peace,
Ceeboo

You know I have. I admire you for your sincerity and the way you exemplify the best of Christian charity and genuine caring for your fellow beings, not for your as yet lingering misperceptions and doubts about evolutionary theory.

[_Megacles]

I do not know if that is fair, Markk. It seems like you are selecting one very specific verse--out of context--on which to build your entire argument, while I am asking if the Bible generally speaks about being saved by grace alone.

A verse here or there might support your argument, but let us not fall into something that that might eventually resemble a base rate bias.

Hi megacles

How did I take it out of context? Please support that assertion...Explain to me what Paul meant here? When you are done there I will go to the next verse, and so on and so on. You don't have to believe the verses, but we can objectively look at them.

Hi Markk,

Sorry for the late reply.

Taking that single verse out of the entirety of the Bible to support your argument is what I mean by taking it out of context. The Bible, generally speaking, says nothing about being saved by grace alone. Verses that talk about grace are almost always accompanied by talk of work.

If you believe I have built my argument on one verse then we have a lot to discuss...are you willing...is that fair?

Thanks
MG

Yes, of course. I would like to know how you reconcile the fact that the Bible says nothing about being saved by grace alone, and that that erroneous belief about the Bible is a stick with which some evangelical Christians choose to beat Mormons.

My reply to you here deserves an answer, I think, and if you hang your hat on Paul then we must also explore why Paul talked extensively about repentance (a work) in order to be saved.