The Kate Kelly Excommunication Thread

[_Stumpy Pepys]

I think the Yucatan Pachyderm has a point. I have an incredible amount of respect for Kelly and Dehlin, but there is no way they could be so educated in church history, and have so much experience with church culture, that the church's actions would catch them off guard.

Hurt? Sure. Surprised? No.

The official cause and effect story of the big changes in Mormonism (blacks n priesthood, polygamy, etc) have been that they were revelations. The brethren were in the driver's seat, not public opinion or the PR dept. From the outside, this looks silly. But thousands of Mormons testify every sunday that the brethren have a chat with J.H.C., get their marching orders, and then direct the affairs of the church. This is how church authority is conceptualized in the minds of its salt-of-the-earth, tithe paying members. Kate Kelly's actions are calling BS on this narrative, whether that is her primary purpose or not. It undermines the church's claim to authority and how it all works. I think this is subversive to church authority, even if she is merely requesting that they ask JHC if women can be ordained. There is no way that she could be unaware of this.

Maybe John Dehlin has a point in that, he had previously reached an equillibrium with his previous SP and Bishop. Leadership changed, and then they wanted to take some action. Still, MormonStories is not merely a chat-space for those who have discovered problems in the church and are looking for a way to stabilize the ground they once stood upon. MS is also a megaphone for disseminating those problems. I am down with that. I think it's great. But, to point out the "support" aspect of Mormonstories and ignore mass broadcast of doctrinal and historical problems, is a partial and perhaps misleading representation of what he is doing.

[_Kishkumen]

Dear Sister Kelly, please know that this action has utterly ZERO impact on your eternities. Zilch.

I agree, just me. Those who excommunicated her, on the other hand . . .

[_Mayan Elephant]

Actually...that's pretty close.

by some logic and standards yes. but not really, mate.

getting an unscheduled hit to the forehead with a baseball is a shocker. holy crap that hurt.

standing in front of a pitching machine, cranking the thing up to 90 MPH, asking your friend to drop a baseball in the feeder, and feeling concussed from the impact of a baseball into your forehead is just as hurtful, but not a shocker.

[_moksha]

Wait....we still have the appeal process, don't we?

Yes.

It takes about a year and you pretty much have to agree to all their terms.

The renunciation of the Earth revolving around the Sun and the affirmation that women are lesser in the eyes of God, would take a dangerous dosage of Valium, still it is doable.

[_Ceeboo]

getting an unscheduled hit to the forehead with a baseball is a shocker. holy s*** that hurt.

standing in front of a pitching machine, cranking the thing up to 90 MPH, asking your friend to drop a baseball in the feeder, and feeling concussed from the impact of a baseball into your forehead is just as hurtful, but not a shocker.

Peace,
Ceeboo

[_beanboots]

getting an unscheduled hit to the forehead with a baseball is a shocker. holy s*** that hurt.

standing in front of a pitching machine, cranking the thing up to 90 MPH, asking your friend to drop a baseball in the feeder, and feeling concussed from the impact of a baseball into your forehead is just as hurtful, but not a shocker.

Peace,
Ceeboo

And having 3 pitching machines cranked up to 90 and dropping those new excommunicative balls made out of lead and having them shot at you by your bishopric after they told you it wasn't a good/safe idea is inherently unsurprising, but man does it hurt. If kate wants to have the power and authority to operate a pitching machine with excommunicative balls, she'll sadly have to change her genitalia in the preexistence. She's a bit late.

[_Mayan Elephant]

MS is also a megaphone for disseminating those problems. But, to point out the "support" aspect of Mormonstories and ignore mass broadcast of doctrinal and historical problems, is a partial and perhaps misleading representation of what he is doing.

Stumpy, i agree with this from our perspective, from otterson's perspective, and maybe from dehlin's perspective. but i do not think that the average Mormon who pays tithing and goes to church would agree. they would say this about kelly, but not about dehlin. yes?

the only way members would come to similar conclusions, like yours and mine, would be if there was a larger media or newsroom campaign to make dehlin a target. i think otterson is more likely to get ears to listen and shut up about this guy, for now, rather than go after him and make the news headlines about kelly exponential.

i think the conversation about waterman is more interesting. that dude seems to be operating with a lot of consistency and integrity. i think it was kishkumen that wrote about him in more detail. a friend of mine corresponds with him and has done for years, including doing so throughout a stint as a bishop. waterman may still get the axe. i do not think we will see a court for dehlin any time soon.

[_just me]

Does the church really think they've put this issue to bed? Do they honestly think there won't be a gathering of women wanting to gain entrance at the very next PH session? Do they think that OW is just going to go away?