Kate Kelly and Cyberbullying

[Guest]

Arch is back! sup, brah?

man, i haven't seen you since the last time Water Dog needed a hastily conceived and completely transparent sockpuppet like, what was it, 2 months ago? ...

<<<<flashback ripple effect>>>>

If I read Water Dog correctly I think what he actually said is [blah blah blah]

LOL. I have a feeling I know who this is (in real life). And you're a jackass.

You know what else might be a cool way to take this? If he starts playing the Water Dog/Arch relationship kind of like Marcus Fenix and Dominic Santiago in the Gears of War series. Although I still think it would be a fresh new look at the internet Mormon troll/sockpuppet genre if Water Dog made the narrative about two butch gays who did kind of a Brokeback Afghanistan and are struggling as faithful Mormons to cope with their return to civilian life and their forbidden love.

[_canpakes]

OK, I'll bite... Why would it need to be organized any differently?

Lots of stuff would need to change. Lighter trays because girls don't have the muscle mass of boys. Cushy chairs and centerpieces in the priesthood rooms. Tampon dispensers. Everything will be ruined.

I can definitely see some positive outcomes from this. With the addition of women into the ranks we'll have increased the number of Priesthood holders by 100%, so we can load the bread trays only half as much each. And having womenfolk prepare the sacrament means no more horribly shredded chunks of Wonder Bread. Instead, we'll probably get beautiful mini-muffins or homemade loaves artfully cut and arranged with a centerpiece. I welcome that.

And tampon dispensers can be purchased these days in Temple-ready finishes, painted in gleaming, pure white with tasteful chrome accents. They almost look like little micro-mini temples themselves. These are certainly a fine and wondrous way to enhance the architecture of the House of the Lord. Certainly, Heavenly Mother would approve.




It's settled, then. Waterdog hasn't provided a reason why we can't pull this off, so why not proceed? ; )

[Guest]

I'm pro-life and I have no idea what your rant has to do with my question. If God gave men the priesthood and gave women the ability to bear children, what did God give women who can't have babies? What is their special God given power?

An oxymoron, a pro life feminist.

Why do you (or the character you are playing) assume I'm a feminist? Because I think women should have equal opportunities in life? Wow, what a radical concept. Welcome to the 21st century. Why do you have a need to put political labels on people? The great thing about being out of the church is you can actually have your own opinions on lots of different issues without worrying if your opinions line up with the Prophet. I believe women, and everyone else, should have equal opportunities. I also have a soft spot for living things, and I consider fetuses living things. I'm not going to shoot an abortion doctor or picket planned parenthood because I'm not radical on any of my opinions. It's simply what I believe, and I won't bore you with the reasons for my political beliefs. But, believe it or not, there are hundreds of millions of people in this country and we don't all fit neatly into little political boxes.

[_Bazooka]

So, Water Dog cannot give us even ONE example of where the OW organization has bullied the church.

*Hint: Google and Huff Post are not part of the OW organization.

I gave you a whole category of examples. You want a specific action, ok, organizing a public demonstration outside the conference center not only once but twice! Inviting the media to attend and take pictures. Giving them church-bashing interviews. All of that is bullying.

Pressuring women to adopt the feminist lifestyle - bullying.

Martin Luther King was a bully? Who knew....

[_consiglieri]

The power and authority of God. That is what the priesthood is, isn't it?

The authority to baptize their own children. The authority to bless their own children.

The power to hold positions of leadership, which has become inextricably entwined with maleness.

Is there any good reason a woman would not make as good a bishop as a man?

Or a stake president?

Or an apostle?

Or a prophet? (Remember Deborah?)

The power and authority to perform marriages

The ability to stand as witness for a sealing or baptism

The p/a to stand in the circle of blessings, confirmations

The p/a to give blessings, confirmations

The right to a female personal interviewer

The p/a to take confessions (personal interviews)

The p/a to bless & pass the sacrament

Autonomy

Publishing the Relief Society's own manuals and publications

The ability to sit next to her husband in the temple endowment ritual

The ability to keep her face unveiled during the endowment ritual

She and her husband do not make the same promises in the sealing ritual or endowment ritual

Attendance to the Priesthood session of GC

Equal standing with her husband in the eyes of the church

There is no female version of Patriarch

The p/a to give patriarchal (matriarchal) blessings

No females in "courts of love"

You win.

[_consiglieri]

I will give it a try, then, Water Dog.

You seem to think that ordaining women to priesthood offices will spell the end of the LDS Church and the family.

How do you see that happening?


All the Best!

--Consiglieri

[_KevinSim]

Kevin, I am not sure what else you would expect from an active, believing member who knows their words will be published on for critics to read.

That sword cuts both ways.

Just Me, I believe you are completely honest in your description of your experiences with Relief Society. But I've known my sister for a long time, and that lifetime of experience leads me to the inevitable conclusion that she is also being completely honest in her description of her experiences with Relief Society. She's simply not the kind of person that would make up something positive for public consumption. So, how do we get two completely honest people who have such varying descriptions of the same organization?

Well, it's possible that, despite her complete honesty, my sister might be a little biased in favor of the LDS Church. But it is also equally possible that you, Just Me might be just as biased against the LDS Church. After all, I'm the only person I know who suffers from no biases whatsoever. (Ha ha! Little joke there.)

The LDS Church is such a polarizer; either one hates it or one loves it. I've come across very, very few people who were not wildly biased one way or the other. In fact, Todd Compton is the only person I know who even remotely appears to be free of one of those biases.

I also don't see how that results in RS being a "celebration" of stay at home motherhood.

For that I noted:

In the hundreds of RS meetings I have attended, and even taught, I have felt buoyed up by the fellowship of others who, in spite of all the trials involved, see and marvel in the priceless value of active full-time parenting.

I admit that that's not very much.

[_Sethbag]

A person can't. There is no way to objectively verify it. So what? Communication with God is subjective thing. It would be nice if there was an objective way to communicate with God, but unless you can think of one we're stuck with the subjective means.

If it's subjective, and you can't verify that what you identify as the promptings of a spirit really is the promptings of a spirit, then how do you know that you're really talk to God in the first place? That's kinda the point here.

At any rate, it's pretty clear LDS leaders aren't talking to God, nor is it clear there even is a God with whom to talk in the first place.

If LDS leaders were really talking to God, they wouldn't still be teaching that Earth is a few thousand years old and that humankind descends from Adam and Eve since they were kicked out of the Garden of Eden several thousand years ago. Nor would they have banned blacks from priesthood, nor waited until 1978 to finally decide God was OK with them overturning that ban. Nor would they have said or written any number of other things that reveal a magical-thinking inspired fantasy worldview steeped in mythology that was blown out of the water decades ago on the basis of actual, physical evidence and the progress of science and understanding of the natural world.

But hey, keep talking to yourself and imagining that the invisible man in the sky is talking back. Keep telling yourself and others how much you "know" the LDS church is true on the basis of what you've already admitted is a subjective, non-evidence based procedure for obtaining knowledge which you've also admitted cannot be verified.

[Guest]

Women were and still are barred from the branch of the military I served in. Whabt point is it you're trying to make?

I just clued into this thread only because I occasionally look for DarthJ posts and I just caught thjs massive whopper.

BS!

I served 7 years in USASOC at Fort Bragg. I can tell you unequivocally women serve throughout the community IN EVERY CAPACITY. The best Officer I have served under went on to become the 82's first female G2. Her competency, leadership, and physicality were unmatched. Additionally, my ex served there and she, without violating opsec, served in EVERY CAPACITY.

- Doc

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

I can't stand it when overt sexism is taking place these days. It's ridiculous.

- Doc