The Economics of Zion.

[_Droopy]

I would begin here:

“Some years ago, in Nauvoo, a gentleman in my hearing, a member of the Legislature, asked Joseph Smith how it was that he was enabled to govern so many people, and to preserve such perfect order; remarking at the same time that it was impossible for them to do it anywhere else. Mr. Smith remarked that it was very easy to do that. ‘How?’ responded the gentleman; ‘to us it is very difficult.’ Mr. Smith replied, ‘I teach them correct principles, and they govern themselves.’”

https://www.LDS.org/.../teachings-josep ... apter-24...

This, I would argue, is a long way and a wide gulf away from any form of socialism or egalitarian collectivism, as taught in the world over the last two centuries or so, as well as from a "mixed economy" or a "democratic" socialist or "third way" between socialism and free-market economic relations (as if any movement toward tyranny and serfdom is an appropriate response to a perennial and complex feature of the human condition like poverty).

Joseph's understanding of government is, if a contemporary term were to be found to describe it, a "libertarian" conception of the state, but within a gospel framework and free of the totemization of individual autonomy that can place contemporary secular libertarianism outside the sphere of gospel teachings in certain key areas.

[_bcspace]

The LoC isn't anywhere near Socialism or Communalism. Heck, it's not even an economic system. But it does require Free Market Capitalism in order to work and as we all know from ther scriptures, God is a Free Market Capitalist.

The Plan of Salvation is a neutral system. What good or evil comes into it is brought by the individual. Socialism on the other hand is inherently evil as it removes agency, responsibility and any possibility of charity etc. The battle between Free Market Capitalism and Socialism is really just a continuation of the war in heaven hear on earth.

[_Yahoo Bot]

According to the Fourth Book of Nephi and early Acts, the Lord's system of economics is communism. No private ownership. Perhaps Noam Chomsky had it right.

[_Tavares Standfield]

Joseph's understanding of government is, if a contemporary term were to be found to describe it, a "libertarian" conception of the state, but within a gospel framework and free of the totemization of individual autonomy that can place contemporary secular libertarianism outside the sphere of gospel teachings in certain key areas.

Translation:

Libertarianism is awesome and absolutely the form of government compatible for free agency and gospel. However, if someone exercises their agency in such a way that I find disagreeable, or in some way offends my religious beliefs, then Fascism is the preferred form of government.

Libertarianism for me, but not for thee!

[_Tavares Standfield]

God is a Free Market Capitalist.

BCSpace's version of the Nicene Creed.

But let's think about it. The basis of capitalism is to take resources (capital) and use it in such a way as to produce more capital (cash) that is returned to the risk-taker who purchased the original resources (with his own capital, cash).

If God where a free market capitalist, the following must be true:

1. God's knowledge is limited (if he was omniscient, he would never expend more capital for resources beyond their base value + the labor costs needed to collect them -- thus completely removing the profit motive from fellow participants in the celestial marketplace)

2. God is not all powerful (if her were, he wouldn't need the free market to gain resources as he could simply create more -- hell, even if we take Joseph Smith's God-man one would think that Elohim could simply organize existing matter in such a way as to provide him with whatever resources he was in need off)

3. If God is ever dumped by one of his celestial wives and goes off and decides to turn a little water into wine do dull the pain, he could get drawn into a poker game wherein he puts the Earth into the pot. Therefore, there is a very real possibility that the dominion of the Earth could be lost to Shiva at any time. Have you seen the Ganges river?

[_zeezrom]

What is the highest goverent office held by Joseph Smith? I recall that he was mayor for a season. While commendable, this office falls far from high offices of the any branch of US government. Being mayor in a frontier town is very different from being say, president of the US, dictator in Central America, or leader of any country that must deal with the complex issues of an entire region of the world. Joseph Smith was just a religious guy.

[_bcspace]

he would never expend more capital for resources beyond their base value + the labor costs needed to collect them -- thus completely removing the profit motive from fellow participants in the celestial marketplace)

D&C 18:10

2. God is not all powerful (if her were, he wouldn't need the free market to gain resources as he could simply create more -- hell, even if we take Joseph Smith's God-man one would think that Elohim could simply organize existing matter in such a way as to provide him with whatever resources he was in need off)

Back again to D&C 18:10. God has a whole process to refine people to their maximum value as evidenced by the degrees of salvation.

3. If God is ever dumped by one of his celestial wives and goes off and decides to turn a little water into wine do dull the pain, he could get drawn into a poker game wherein he puts the Earth into the pot. Therefore, there is a very real possibility that the dominion of the Earth could be lost to Shiva at any time. Have you seen the Ganges river?

Hast thou considered my servant Job?



Actually, there are things God cannot do. The scriptures even mention some of them. His all powerful and omniscient properties are merely relative to us.

[_Tarski]

Translation:

Libertarianism is awesome and absolutely the form of government compatible for free agency and gospel. However, if someone exercises their agency in such a way that I find disagreeable, or in some way offends my religious beliefs, then Fascism is the preferred form of government.

Libertarianism for me, but not for thee!

LOL
exactly

[_Tavares Standfield]

he would never expend more capital for resources beyond their base value + the labor costs needed to collect them -- thus completely removing the profit motive from fellow participants in the celestial marketplace)

D&C 18:10

2. God is not all powerful (if her were, he wouldn't need the free market to gain resources as he could simply create more -- hell, even if we take Joseph Smith's God-man one would think that Elohim could simply organize existing matter in such a way as to provide him with whatever resources he was in need off)

Back again to D&C 18:10. God has a whole process to refine people to their maximum value as evidenced by the degrees of salvation.

3. If God is ever dumped by one of his celestial wives and goes off and decides to turn a little water into wine do dull the pain, he could get drawn into a poker game wherein he puts the Earth into the pot. Therefore, there is a very real possibility that the dominion of the Earth could be lost to Shiva at any time. Have you seen the Ganges river?

Hast thou considered my servant Job?



Actually, there are things God cannot do. The scriptures even mention some of them. His all powerful and omniscient properties are merely relative to us.

BC,

I don't think the saying "the worth of souls is great in the sight of God" has anything to do with monetary value.
You have reduced God to an ATM.

Enter the right PIN, get the appropriate blessing. And the more righteous we are, the more valuable our souls become to God.

But what in the world is he going to spend us on, BC? Is he hoping that you make that home teaching visit so he can afford a new Caddy?

Tavares

[_bcspace]

I don't think the saying "the worth of souls is great in the sight of God" has anything to do with monetary value.

I don't think so either. I am speaking of spiritual currency though I'd be willing to bet it all works the same way considering the various verses on the subject.

Plus detractors of this truth don't realize that God is a perfected being who, as a free market capitalist, is doing all the good possible with it. No good can be done in any other system.

You have reduced God to an ATM.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PlsW2hd06R0

But what in the world is he going to spend us on, BC? Is he hoping that you make that home teaching visit so he can afford a new Caddy?

He's going to enjoy our company at the very least. The treasures of heaven are not corrupted by moth or rust.