Why do so many people dislike John Dehlin?

[_Molok]

What makes you feel that way? I've always thought he was sincere. But I haven't followed John Dehlin or MS for many many years.

Just the interactions I've seen him have on the board here gives me that impression. A certain zeal of self promotion, I guess you would say. I could very well be wrong, because I don't really know much about him. I've never listened to one of his podcasts, or anything like that. So take that for whatever it's worth.

[_Tobin]

Well, I like John Dehlin, so I guess this doesn't apply to me. I also like sandwiches with fried baloney and horseradish sauce.

[_Always Changing]

Mormon culture is very polarizing. It's very "you're in or you're out." Within this culture, John Dehlin has sought to straddle the line between inside and out. Over the past several years, he has made overtures towards those who identify as "in" and those who identify as "out" but seems to leave people wanting in terms of how committed he is to either side. The cultural expectation in Mormonism is to choose Team In or Team Out. Many people don't know what to do with someone who refuses to make this choice and the result is that sometimes people on both sides can feel burned if they staked anything on him being on one team or the other.

I agree with this. It is difficult to live a lifestyle which appreciates the positive cultural aspects of Mormonism, while rejecting Mormonism itself. Growing up, because it was not directly discussed in the home, I was confused as to why "What happens at home stays at home." Today I understand the judgmental attitudes towards "Team Out."


Fried baloney and horseradish!! YUMMY!

[_Stumpy Pepys]

Is it true that a lot of people hate him?

From being part of Facebook groups, and discussion boards, and having followed this stuff for years, I think John Dehlin hate amongst NOM/fringe/EXMO folks is more a matter of intensity than quantity. Not saying who is right or wrong.

I have no reason to dislike him and every reason to really appreciate what he has done.

[_cwald]

It seems to me that John has helped a lot of people and so I can understand sycophants. It's easy to understand how when helped by John a person may elevate him to a certain status.

From the other thread on John I can see that both Rockslider and cwald are John Dehlin fans. Not to the point of being sycophants -- but certainly John Dehlin defenders.

But how can someone so helpful, kind, gracious and selfless generate so much hate? I don't get it.

I respect john. I'm not sure I would have ever left the church without the influence of MS. And certainly, staylds helped me navigate my faith crisis in a manner to minimize the emotional and relationship damage.

When john "flip flopped" a couple of years ago and axed the regional MS Facebook groups, I was really pissed and felt betrayed. ... and I told him so.

I've "forgiven" him and tried to understand his perspective and given him the benefit of the doubt since then.

I'm certainly not a sycophant, I merely respect and support his efforts, and the fact that he can get the "middle way" message out there where the church has to acknowledge him and deal with the issues.

Personally, I would love to see the church burn to the ground, but as Larsen reminded us on a recent pod, there are still people (family/friends) in the building.

[_Racer]

As a whole, I don't think people hate Dehlin as much as they are tired of him. If you have followed his saga over the years, you would know what I mean. It's too long to explain the whole history. A person can still appear kind and warm hearted, but still be a complete self-serving douche bag. Here are the Cliff's Notes highlights of why John generates so much ire.

-John loves attention, so he likes to glom onto whichever group will elevate him at the moment. TBMS, NOMS, ExMos, OW, LGBT, Atheisists. John is pretty much loyal to whichever group he feels will benefit him the most. This behavior is commonly referred to as "Selling Out". He gets some love by crowd "A" and then throws "A" under the bus to go throw his hat in with crowd "B" who is the flavor of the day with showering him with love, and attention. He burns bridges this way showing little loyalty.

-Dehlin reminds me of DCP when it comes to doing tack narcissistic things like name dropping where applicable or disguising boasts as innocent Facebook posts. He'll say stuff like: "Guys, I won't be able to post on the Mormon Stories Facebook page for a few days because I am working on a thesis." "Guys, I am swamped writing this TEDx talk, so I am taking a break from Facebook." The key point of these types of posts is not that he is busy. He just wants us all to know he's writing a Tedx talk or a thesis.

-Similarily he'll post stupid crap on Facebook like: "Guys, I am in NY what's the best broadway show to see?" "Guys, I am in Chicago, can anyone recommend the best XYZ?" Again the point being "Look at me, I am in New York having a ball!" If you want to knwo this stuff, google it or go on yelp. Its like that a-hole friend we all have who posts stuff like: "Just got my end of year bonus. Need some advice. Should I buy a BMW or an Audi?" Why can't the friend go test drive the cars or read the Consumer Report instead of asking a bunch of people never have or will drive a BMW? It's because your friend is insecure and its not so much about what his friends recommend as it is about letting everyone know he is going to buy a fancy car. John is famous for these kinds of posts and it makes him come off as extremely narcisstic.

I could go into more detail, but hopefully you get the point. All this behavior is tiresome. Dehlin has some real talents and could probably shine if he focused them into one thing, but his constant loyalty shifts and narcisstic and insecure craving to have his name in lights have somewhat sabotoaged himself to a certain degree. In the end he is his own worst enemy. At this point he has pissed off the OMIDS, TBMs, NOMs, Exmos, and GA's. Which lends itself to some of the negative shade he gets cast his way. But its essentially his fault IMHO

[_Sister Mary Lisa]

As a whole, I don't think people hate Dehlin as much as they are tired of him. If you have followed his saga over the years, you would know what I mean. It's too long to explain the whole history. A person can still appear kind and warm hearted, but still be a complete self-serving douche bag. Here are the Cliff's Notes highlights of why John generates so much ire.

-John loves attention, so he likes to glom onto whichever group will elevate him at the moment. TBMS, NOMS, ExMos, OW, LGBT, Atheisists. John is pretty much loyal to whichever group he feels will benefit him the most. This behavior is commonly referred to as "Selling Out". He gets some love by crowd "A" and then throws "A" under the bus to go throw his hat in with crowd "B" who is the flavor of the day with showering him with love, and attention. He burns bridges this way showing little loyalty.

-Dehlin reminds me of DCP when it comes to doing tack narcissistic things like name dropping where applicable or disguising boasts as innocent Facebook posts. He'll say stuff like: "Guys, I won't be able to post on the Mormon Stories Facebook page for a few days because I am working on a thesis." "Guys, I am swamped writing this TEDx talk, so I am taking a break from Facebook." The key point of these types of posts is not that he is busy. He just wants us all to know he's writing a Tedx talk or a thesis.

-Similarily he'll post stupid s*** on Facebook like: "Guys, I am in NY what's the best broadway show to see?" "Guys, I am in Chicago, can anyone recommend the best XYZ?" Again the point being "Look at me, I am in New York having a ball!" If you want to knwo this stuff, google it or go on yelp. Its like that a-hole friend we all have who posts stuff like: "Just got my end of year bonus. Need some advice. Should I buy a BMW or an Audi?" Why can't the friend go test drive the cars or read the Consumer Report instead of asking a bunch of people never have or will drive a BMW? It's because your friend is insecure and its not so much about what his friends recommend as it is about letting everyone know he is going to buy a fancy car. John is famous for these kinds of posts and it makes him come off as extremely narcisstic.

I could go into more detail, but hopefully you get the point. All this behavior is tiresome. Dehlin has some real talents and could probably shine if he focused them into one thing, but his constant loyalty shifts and narcisstic and insecure craving to have his name in lights have somewhat sabotoaged himself to a certain degree. In the end he is his own worst enemy. At this point he has pissed off the OMIDS, TBMs, NOMs, Exmos, and GA's. Which lends itself to some of the negative shade he gets cast his way. But its essentially his fault IMHO

I salute my wine glass in your direction as well. This sums up quite nicely how so many people view Dehlin, including me. How benign or malignant his narcissism is remains to be determined.

[_Blixa]

As a whole, I don't think people hate Dehlin as much as they are tired of him. If you have followed his saga over the years, you would know what I mean. It's too long to explain the whole history. A person can still appear kind and warm hearted, but still be a complete self-serving douche bag. Here are the Cliff's Notes highlights of why John generates so much ire.

-John loves attention, so he likes to glom onto whichever group will elevate him at the moment. TBMS, NOMS, ExMos, OW, LGBT, Atheisists. John is pretty much loyal to whichever group he feels will benefit him the most. This behavior is commonly referred to as "Selling Out". He gets some love by crowd "A" and then throws "A" under the bus to go throw his hat in with crowd "B" who is the flavor of the day with showering him with love, and attention. He burns bridges this way showing little loyalty.

-Dehlin reminds me of DCP when it comes to doing tack narcissistic things like name dropping where applicable or disguising boasts as innocent Facebook posts. He'll say stuff like: "Guys, I won't be able to post on the Mormon Stories Facebook page for a few days because I am working on a thesis." "Guys, I am swamped writing this TEDx talk, so I am taking a break from Facebook." The key point of these types of posts is not that he is busy. He just wants us all to know he's writing a Tedx talk or a thesis.

-Similarily he'll post stupid crap on Facebook like: "Guys, I am in NY what's the best broadway show to see?" "Guys, I am in Chicago, can anyone recommend the best XYZ?" Again the point being "Look at me, I am in New York having a ball!" If you want to knwo this stuff, google it or go on yelp. Its like that a-hole friend we all have who posts stuff like: "Just got my end of year bonus. Need some advice. Should I buy a BMW or an Audi?" Why can't the friend go test drive the cars or read the Consumer Report instead of asking a bunch of people never have or will drive a BMW? It's because your friend is insecure and its not so much about what his friends recommend as it is about letting everyone know he is going to buy a fancy car. John is famous for these kinds of posts and it makes him come off as extremely narcisstic.

I could go into more detail, but hopefully you get the point. All this behavior is tiresome. Dehlin has some real talents and could probably shine if he focused them into one thing, but his constant loyalty shifts and narcisstic and insecure craving to have his name in lights have somewhat sabotoaged himself to a certain degree. In the end he is his own worst enemy. At this point he has pissed off the OMIDS, TBMs, NOMs, Exmos, and GA's. Which lends itself to some of the negative shade he gets cast his way. But its essentially his fault IMHO

Thanks Racer for saving me the trouble of typing pretty much this exact response.

[_6EQUJ5]

As a whole, I don't think people hate Dehlin as much as they are tired of him. If you have followed his saga over the years, you would know what I mean. It's too long to explain the whole history. A person can still appear kind and warm hearted, but still be a complete self-serving douche bag. Here are the Cliff's Notes highlights of why John generates so much ire.

-John loves attention, so he likes to glom onto whichever group will elevate him at the moment. TBMS, NOMS, ExMos, OW, LGBT, Atheisists. John is pretty much loyal to whichever group he feels will benefit him the most. This behavior is commonly referred to as "Selling Out". He gets some love by crowd "A" and then throws "A" under the bus to go throw his hat in with crowd "B" who is the flavor of the day with showering him with love, and attention. He burns bridges this way showing little loyalty.

-Dehlin reminds me of DCP when it comes to doing tack narcissistic things like name dropping where applicable or disguising boasts as innocent Facebook posts. He'll say stuff like: "Guys, I won't be able to post on the Mormon Stories Facebook page for a few days because I am working on a thesis." "Guys, I am swamped writing this TEDx talk, so I am taking a break from Facebook." The key point of these types of posts is not that he is busy. He just wants us all to know he's writing a Tedx talk or a thesis.

-Similarily he'll post stupid s*** on Facebook like: "Guys, I am in NY what's the best broadway show to see?" "Guys, I am in Chicago, can anyone recommend the best XYZ?" Again the point being "Look at me, I am in New York having a ball!" If you want to knwo this stuff, google it or go on yelp. Its like that a-hole friend we all have who posts stuff like: "Just got my end of year bonus. Need some advice. Should I buy a BMW or an Audi?" Why can't the friend go test drive the cars or read the Consumer Report instead of asking a bunch of people never have or will drive a BMW? It's because your friend is insecure and its not so much about what his friends recommend as it is about letting everyone know he is going to buy a fancy car. John is famous for these kinds of posts and it makes him come off as extremely narcisstic.

I could go into more detail, but hopefully you get the point. All this behavior is tiresome. Dehlin has some real talents and could probably shine if he focused them into one thing, but his constant loyalty shifts and narcisstic and insecure craving to have his name in lights have somewhat sabotoaged himself to a certain degree. In the end he is his own worst enemy. At this point he has pissed off the OMIDS, TBMs, NOMs, Exmos, and GA's. Which lends itself to some of the negative shade he gets cast his way. But its essentially his fault IMHO

Thank you, Racer. That makes a lot of sense.

I need to go back and read Greg Smith's hit piece. I wonder if he may have gotten a thing or two right?

[_Sethbag]

I'm sure Greg Smith's hit piece was just a hundred pages of "Hey guys, should I buy a BMW or an Audi?", right?

I've annoyed or alienated a ton of people in my life by doing things like this that were socially inept. Thank God I've never been famous; that's just more people to annoy, and most of them would be less forgiving than those who get to know me better.

I'm sick of the whole John Dehlin shitstorm. It's tiresome. I have a suggestion: those who dislike John Dehlin stop participating in his stuff, and if you're right, eventually he'll burn out on his own and the problem will be solved. How simple is that?