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Re: Elder Anderson defending Joseph Smith
Posted: Sun Oct 05, 2014 1:02 pm
by _Sammy Jankins
suniluni2 wrote:Elder Maxwell: “Studying the church through the eyes of its defectors is like interviewing Judas to understand Jesus.” #ElderAndersen
What's wrong with that? Judas was an apostle and I'm sure had a lot of insight into Jesus.
Yeah, even cherry picking with the example Judas his logic doesn't work. After all If we had the published words of Judas, what serious student of Christianity wouldn't want to read them? Who would assert blindly that there are no insights to be gained, before they'd read a single word?
Re: Elder Anderson defending Joseph Smith
Posted: Sun Oct 05, 2014 2:56 pm
by _Markk
Sammy Jankins wrote:
What's wrong with that? Judas was an apostle and I'm sure had a lot of insight into Jesus
Yeah, even cherry picking with the example Judas his logic doesn't work. After all If we had the published words of Judas, what serious student of Christianity wouldn't want to read them? Who would assert blindly that there are no insights to be gained, before they'd read a single word?
Also, if defectors are not to be relied upon...why cherry pick from the likes of David Whitmer? " He had a testimony for the Book of Mormon, but denied the Melk PH was in the founding of the church he helped start?
If a Oaks or a Holland were to defect, should everything they have said be stricken from the history books and the exit interview buried?
As always, if it lends to strengthen the testimony...then it will have merit, if it disturbs the cohesiveness of the saints...i.e. "the survival church"...then is not worthy of objective consideration.
Re: Elder Anderson defending Joseph Smith
Posted: Sun Oct 05, 2014 3:10 pm
by _Bazooka
why me wrote:No one believes that Joseph Smith was perfect in that sense of the word. However, when we consider his life and what he accomplished in such a short time, we would need to admire him for what he did. No prophet has been perfect, Certainly, in the Old Testament we have imperfect prophets and yet, they are honored for what they did and accomplished to preach the work of god.
We can always trust the living prophets. Their teachings reflect the will of the Lord, who declared: “What I the Lord have spoken, I have spoken, and I excuse not myself; and though the heavens and the earth pass away, my word shall not pass away, but shall all be fulfilled, whether by mine own voice or by the voice of my servants, it is the same” (D&C 1:38).
https://www.lds.org/topics/prophets?lang=eng
Could the members of the time, always trust Joseph Smith?
Can we now trust everything Joseph said?
Does the Church now uphold everything Joseph proclaimed?
Re: Elder Anderson defending Joseph Smith
Posted: Sun Oct 05, 2014 3:34 pm
by _Markk
Bazooka wrote:
Could the members of the time, always trust Joseph Smith?
Can we now trust everything Joseph said?
Does the Church now uphold everything Joseph proclaimed?
Only when they speak as a prophet (c) US patent # 0000000000001
Re: Elder Anderson defending Joseph Smith
Posted: Sun Oct 05, 2014 5:11 pm
by _why me
Bazooka wrote:
Could the members of the time, always trust Joseph Smith?Bot
Can we now trust everything Joseph said?
Does the Church now uphold everything Joseph proclaimed?
I think that they could trust him to lead the church in the correct way. And he did. Could they trust him as a human being? Mostly yes. But he was human and he was very aware of his own humanness. He even stated a few times that he wasn't perfect. The church does what it needs to do through revelation.
Bottom line is simple: if one leads a good lds life, one will not go wrong and the Book of Mormon and how it came about is certainly a testament of what joseph smith accomplished when he was young.
Re: Elder Anderson defending Joseph Smith
Posted: Sun Oct 05, 2014 11:54 pm
by _Sammy Jankins
So Anderson knows about the controversial problems surrounding Joseph Smith. He knows members are basically being suprised by this information because the correlation committee decided not to tell the membership. The half-truths and whitewashing have blown up in their face, and what does he do? Does he come clean? Hell no. He poisons the well.
He knows what the LDS church is doing. But he just doesn't give a damn. He just doesn't care.
Re: Elder Anderson defending Joseph Smith
Posted: Mon Oct 06, 2014 4:26 am
by _Sammy Jankins
I apologize for repeatedly bumping my own thread, but I just keep coming back to how awful this talk was.
“Consider recording the testimony of Joseph Smith in your own voice, listening to it regularly, and sharing it with friends. Listening to the Prophet’s testimony in your own voice will help bring the witness you seek.”
A simple change perhaps will illuminate my concern.
“Consider recording the testimony of Warren Jeffs in your own voice, listening to it regularly, and sharing it with friends. Listening to the Prophet’s testimony in your own voice will help bring the witness you seek.”
Does a repetitive affirmation of a belief ever help us arrive at the truth? Would an young FLDS person benefit from this?
Re: Elder Anderson defending Joseph Smith
Posted: Mon Oct 06, 2014 4:37 am
by _sunstoned
“Consider recording the testimony of Joseph Smith in your own voice, listening to it regularly, and sharing it with friends. Listening to the Prophet’s testimony in your own voice will help bring the witness you seek.”
This is very cultish and creepy.
Re: Elder Anderson defending Joseph Smith
Posted: Mon Oct 06, 2014 8:48 am
by _Bazooka
sunstoned wrote:“Consider recording the testimony of Joseph Smith in your own voice, listening to it regularly, and sharing it with friends. Listening to the Prophet’s testimony in your own voice will help bring the witness you seek.”
This is very cultish and creepy.
This is a form of mind control....
Mind control (also known as brainwashing, coercive persuasion, thought control, or thought reform) is a theoretical indoctrination process which results in "an impairment of autonomy, an inability to think independently, and a disruption of beliefs and affiliations. In this context, brainwashing refers to the involuntary reeducation of basic beliefs and values".[1] The term has been applied to any tactic, psychological or otherwise, which can be seen as subverting an individual's sense of control over their own thinking, behavior, emotions or decision making.
Theories of brainwashing and of mind control were originally developed to explain how totalitarian regimes appeared to succeed systematically in indoctrinating prisoners of war through propaganda and torture techniques. These theories were later expanded and modified by psychologists including Jean-Marie Abgrall and Margaret Singer to explain a wider range of phenomena, especially conversions to new religious movements (NRMs). A third-generation theory proposed by Ben Zablocki focused on the use of mind control to retain members of NRMs and cults. The suggestion that NRMs use mind control techniques has resulted in scientific and legal controversy.[2]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mind_control...and ranks alongside the other manipulative suggestion made by a General Authority of the Church that, if one wants a testimony one should keep bearing a testimony one doesn't believe until they come to believe it.
Really, really, creepy.
Re: Elder Anderson defending Joseph Smith
Posted: Mon Oct 06, 2014 5:50 pm
by _Mormonicious
Judas was very intimate with Jesus, so disqualifying his knowledge of Jesus because of a Historically reported “act” is like claiming that once an Airline Pilot is forced to retire because of age (62) he never knew how to fly commercial jets.