Elder Anderson defending Joseph Smith

[_canpakes]

No one believes that Joseph Smith was perfect in that sense of the word. However, when we consider his life and what he accomplished in such a short time, we would need to admire him for what he did.

I'm not so sure that I need to admire Smith so much as the many folks who placed their trust in him, and - regardless of Smith's antics - went on to live decent, spiritual lives, forming the foundation of what eventually exists as today's membership.

Put another way - once it had made it past it's initial birth, Mormonism became a success less so because of Smith and more so in spite of Smith.

[_canpakes]

if one leads a good lds life, one will not go wrong...

To bolster my previous post:

... if one leads a good christian life, one will not go wrong...
... if one leads a good buddhist life, one will not go wrong...
... if one leads a good jewish life, one will not go wrong...

etc., etc...

What makes the LDS example any different or more effective?

[_canpakes]

“Consider recording the testimony of Joseph Smith in your own voice, listening to it regularly, and sharing it with friends. Listening to the Prophet’s testimony in your own voice will help bring the witness you seek.”

Oh, OK.

“God commanded me to obey it [plural marriage]. He said to me that unless I accept it and introduce it, and practice it, I, together with my people, should be damned and cut off from this time henceforth.”

[_suniluni2]

Just a bump to remind me to read the article on the talk and the talk itself. I haven't had the stomach to do it yet.

[_Sammy Jankins]

Anderson's talk has been published

[_ljr0]

So Anderson knows about the controversial problems surrounding Joseph Smith.

Please elaborate. First what does Anderson know? You can't possibly know the answer to that question, so second: What specific controversial problems are surrounding Joseph Smith? Polygamy? I agree there are members who don't know that Joseph had more than one wife even though that is next to impossible to understand why. Every non-Mormon seems to know, really; how can Mormons not know. Most of what you'll bring up as issues are really non-issues and are not controversy. They might have been stumbling blocks for some people, but most of the so called controversy over doctrines of the church are really non-issues.

1. It doesn't matter how he translated the Book of Mormon. You have the book, read it.
2. It doesn't matter that he instituted and practiced polygamy. It was and is an important part of the church doctrine.
3. It doesn't matter that the priesthood was withheld from anyone (the excuses that were produced were not appropriate, but those cannot be attributed to Joseph Smith)
4. It doesn't matter that we don't know where the people of the Book of Mormon lived and it doesn't matter that evidence of their existence doesn't prove the book to be valid. Again, you have it, read it. Read it not for it's historical content, but for it's message. Its teachings bring people closer to god.
5. It doesn't matter that "experts" in archaeology disagree. No scientist has a perfect knowledge of the past, of languages or of people. It is a non-issue.

As far as I know, those are the big issues today and they are all non-issues. They don't make or break the church. I would much rather have these LDS teachings than any other religion's teachings:

1. Families can be together forever
2. God and Jesus are separate individuals
3. God shares his priesthood with men
4. The Holy Ghost is also a separate person in the godhead and He is the medium that testifies of truth
5. The resurrection is a free gift to all, both good and bad
6. Salvation is freely available to "all" people and can be bought without price and without money
7. Eternal life (or a life of living with god) is something that has to be worked for. To have God in your life now requires a certain kind of living. That will not change after this life. We cannot suddenly be clean if we made no effort in this life to be clean.
8. (I brought out things in the LDS faith that I feel are important and not taught by other religions. This one is taught by others, but not understood): All have sinned and are not clean or worthy to be in the presence of God. Jesus died and shed his blood as an offering for those sins and we cannot enter God's presence without accepting Jesus' sacrifice. He is the shepherd, but like sheep that follow the shepherd, we cannot claim his sacrifice if we do not follow Him.
9. (Though I already stated that families are forever...) God is able to save all of his children and has a plan to gather all that ever lived from Adam to the last man. We have that plan.
10. God has called prophets besides those found in the Bible. What those prophets write qualifies as scripture. The Book of Mormon, Doctrine in Covenants and Pearl of Great Price and the Bible are only the beginning of what will be available as scripture.

Elder Anderson did make one very poignant observation... the evidence against the truth will get worse, not better as we draw closer to the second coming of the Lord.

But if it is truth, it doesn't matter what the evidence against it indicates, it's still the truth. When it comes to spiritual things, there is only one way to know if it's the truth. One can never discern spiritual things through intellectual means.

[_Bazooka]

I love post conference evangelists.

"Nothing else matters because the Church is true therefore nothing else matters."

Got it.

[_Sammy Jankins]

Please elaborate. First what does Anderson know? You can't possibly know the answer to that question,

I know he dedicated his conference talk to the character and reputation of Joseph Smith. I suppose though that it is possible you are right, he could be accusing others of dishonesty and half-truths while not really knowing anything at all concerning the issues.

so second: What specific controversial problems are surrounding Joseph Smith? Polygamy? I agree there are members who don't know that Joseph had more than one wife even though that is next to impossible to understand why. Every non-Mormon seems to know, really; how can Mormons not know. Most of what you'll bring up as issues are really non-issues and are not controversy. They might have been stumbling blocks for some people, but most of the so called controversy over doctrines of the church are really non-issues.

I think it is possible to understand why members do not know Joseph had multiple wives. It's largely because the church doesn't talk about any of them. They tell the life stories of Joseph over and over, they talk about Emma. But rarely do they ever talk about any of the other women that he married. For example check out this bio of Zina Diantha Huntington Young. She was a wife of Joseph Smith, but they never bring it up. So in my opinion many Mormons get the idea that Emma was his only wife because they haven't heard of any of the others.
So these controversies can be stumbling blocks for 'some people', and warrant a conference address, but you insist that they really are non-issues. Joseph Marrying his foster daughter is a non-issue? Joseph deceiving his first wife Emma is a non-issue? Deceiving the membership at large about the practice is a non-issue? Joseph marrying non-virgins in spite of the instructions given by D&C 132 is a non-issue? Destroying a printing press to keep it a secret is a non-issue? How about you tell me what Joseph Smith could have done that you would consider an issue.

1. It doesn't matter how he translated the Book of Mormon. You have the book, read it.

It doesn't matter?

2. It doesn't matter that he instituted and practiced polygamy. It was and is an important part of the church doctrine.

It doesn't matter expect for those whom it does matter.

3. It doesn't matter that the priesthood was withheld from anyone (the excuses that were produced were not appropriate, but those cannot be attributed to Joseph Smith)

So 100+ years of a people being denied the priesthood doesn't matter?

Can not be attributed to Joseph Smith?

Moses 7:8 " For behold, the Lord shall curse the land with much heat, and the barrenness thereof shall go forth forever; and there was a blackness came upon all the children of Canaan, that they were despised among all people."

2 Nephi 5:21 "And he had caused the cursing to come upon them, yea, even a sore cursing, because of their iniquity. For behold, they had hardened their hearts against him, that they had become like unto a flint; wherefore, as they were white, and exceedingly fair and delightsome, that they might not be enticing unto my people the Lord God did cause a skin of blackness to come upon them."

Seems like these basis for these theories can very easily to attributed to Joseph Smith as they are contained in the scriptures he produced. While they do not mention the priesthood, the explanations given by Brigham Young are basically derived from the idea that God curses people and their descendants by changing their skin color.

4. It doesn't matter that we don't know where the people of the Book of Mormon lived and it doesn't matter that evidence of their existence doesn't prove the book to be valid. Again, you have it, read it. Read it not for it's historical content, but for it's message. Its teachings bring people closer to god.
5. It doesn't matter that "experts" in archaeology disagree. No scientist has a perfect knowledge of the past, of languages or of people. It is a non-issue.

No one is asserting they have a perfect knowledge of the past. But based on what we do know and what we've able to find in other civilizations, it seems to me that if the civilizations described in the Book of Mormon actually existed we should have found some evidence by now.

Elder Anderson did make one very poignant observation... the evidence against the truth will get worse, not better as we draw closer to the second coming of the Lord.

And what will God do with those who are deceived by said evidence? Deny them eternal salvation? Not allow them to be with their families? Reward those who managed to believe in spite of the available evidence? I do agree that as time passes, I expect the evidence for Mormonism to get worse.

But if it is truth, it doesn't matter what the evidence against it indicates, it's still the truth. When it comes to spiritual things, there is only one way to know if it's the truth. One can never discern spiritual things through intellectual means.

The means of discerning the truth of spiritual things seems to be terribly unreliable.

[_Bazooka]

What Elder Anderson meant, was that the evidence against what the Church teaches as 'truth' will get ever stronger.

He is correct.

The bigger problem is that the Church always gets around to backing away from what it taught as truth and moves towards teaching what it once said were 'lies'.

Plural marriage was once taught as the determining criteria for exaltation, it's still in the canon, yet the Prophet (Hinckley) denounced it as "not doctrinal".

The First Presidency in 1949 wrote about the Priesthood Ban, officially declaring it doctrine and from God. It's just cultural racism by Church leaders that were influenced by their day.

What they state now as 'truth' would have gotten you labelled as a filthy apostate had you uttered those same statements barely more than a year ago. But hey, that the Church is now taking up previous apostate positions doesn't matter, right?

If you cannot trust the legitimacy of what the Prophet said yesterday, how can you trust what he is saying today?

[_Tator]

So Anderson knows about the controversial problems surrounding Joseph Smith.

Please elaborate. First what does Anderson know? You can't possibly know the answer to that question, so second: What specific controversial problems are surrounding Joseph Smith? Polygamy? I agree there are members who don't know that Joseph had more than one wife even though that is next to impossible to understand why. Every non-Mormon seems to know, really; how can Mormons not know. Most of what you'll bring up as issues are really non-issues and are not controversy. They might have been stumbling blocks for some people, but most of the so called controversy over doctrines of the church are really non-issues.

1. It doesn't matter how he translated the Book of Mormon. You have the book, read it.
2. It doesn't matter that he instituted and practiced polygamy. It was and is an important part of the church doctrine.
3. It doesn't matter that the priesthood was withheld from anyone (the excuses that were produced were not appropriate, but those cannot be attributed to Joseph Smith)
4. It doesn't matter that we don't know where the people of the Book of Mormon lived and it doesn't matter that evidence of their existence doesn't prove the book to be valid. Again, you have it, read it. Read it not for it's historical content, but for it's message. Its teachings bring people closer to god.
5. It doesn't matter that "experts" in archaeology disagree. No scientist has a perfect knowledge of the past, of languages or of people. It is a non-issue.

As far as I know, those are the big issues today and they are all non-issues. They don't make or break the church. I would much rather have these LDS teachings than any other religion's teachings:

1. Families can be together forever
2. God and Jesus are separate individuals
3. God shares his priesthood with men
4. The Holy Ghost is also a separate person in the godhead and He is the medium that testifies of truth
5. The resurrection is a free gift to all, both good and bad
6. Salvation is freely available to "all" people and can be bought without price and without money
7. Eternal life (or a life of living with god) is something that has to be worked for. To have God in your life now requires a certain kind of living. That will not change after this life. We cannot suddenly be clean if we made no effort in this life to be clean.
8. (I brought out things in the LDS faith that I feel are important and not taught by other religions. This one is taught by others, but not understood): All have sinned and are not clean or worthy to be in the presence of God. Jesus died and shed his blood as an offering for those sins and we cannot enter God's presence without accepting Jesus' sacrifice. He is the shepherd, but like sheep that follow the shepherd, we cannot claim his sacrifice if we do not follow Him.
9. (Though I already stated that families are forever...) God is able to save all of his children and has a plan to gather all that ever lived from Adam to the last man. We have that plan.
10. God has called prophets besides those found in the Bible. What those prophets write qualifies as scripture. The Book of Mormon, Doctrine in Covenants and Pearl of Great Price and the Bible are only the beginning of what will be available as scripture.

Elder Anderson did make one very poignant observation... the evidence against the truth will get worse, not better as we draw closer to the second coming of the Lord.

But if it is truth, it doesn't matter what the evidence against it indicates, it's still the truth. When it comes to spiritual things, there is only one way to know if it's the truth. One can never discern spiritual things through intellectual means.

Leave your brain in the parking lot and come in and worship.