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We will not and cannot lead you astray
Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2014 3:21 pm
by _Sammy Jankins
https://www.lds.org/general-conference/2014/10/stay-in-the-boat-and-hold-on?lang=engI apologize if this has already been noted on the board.
But I think it's good after reading and hearing all the apologetics about fallible prophets to remind ourselves how these men actually view and sell themselves.
From Elder Ballard this last weekend.
“Keep the eyes of the mission on the leaders of the Church. … We will not and … cannot lead [you] astray.
“And as you teach your missionaries to focus their eyes on us, teach them to never follow those who think they know more about how to administer the affairs of the Church than … Heavenly Father and the Lord Jesus Christ do” through the priesthood leaders who have the keys to preside.
“I have discovered in my ministry that those who have become lost [and] confused are typically those who have most often … forgotten that when the First Presidency and the Quorum of the Twelve speak with a united voice, it is the voice of the Lord for that time. The Lord reminds us, ‘Whether by mine own voice or by the voice of my servants, it is the same’ [D&C 1:38].”5
That's the Church I knew. Where prophets literally
could not lead us astray. They would not be allowed to by God.
Re: We will not and cannot lead you astray
Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2014 3:29 pm
by _Tobin
However, false doctrine taught in Conference by Elder Ballard will certainly lead you astray.
Re: We will not and cannot lead you astray
Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2014 3:39 pm
by _DarkHelmet
Yeah, blindly follow a group of men because they can't lead you astray (according to them). That's always a good idea.
Re: We will not and cannot lead you astray
Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2014 4:05 pm
by _Molok
Tobin wrote:However, false doctrine taught in Conference by Elder Ballard will certainly lead you astray.
You should probably warn your bishop that Elder Ballard is promoting false doctrine.
Re: We will not and cannot lead you astray
Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2014 4:13 pm
by _Jonah
The last time the missionaries dropped by I mentioned to them that this is probably the strongest and truest prophecy that exists in the church. When they looked at me with a confused expression I said, "Just look at how the Lord backed things up by taking out Joseph Smith."
If I were the church, I would dump all the "martyr" talk, point to Bro Joe marrying 14 year old girls and other men's wives, busting up printing presses, Book of Abraham, etc., and say, "The Lord finally had enough of his baloney. See...He won't let His leaders lead you astray."
Re: We will not and cannot lead you astray
Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2014 7:40 pm
by _Tator
Jonah wrote:The last time the missionaries dropped by I mentioned to them that this is probably the strongest and truest prophecy that exists in the church. When they looked at me with a confused expression I said, "Just look at how the Lord backed things up by taking out Joseph Smith."
If I were the church, I would dump all the "martyr" talk, point to Bro Joe marrying 14 year old girls and other men's wives, busting up printing presses, Book of Abraham, etc., and say, "The Lord finally had enough of his baloney. See...He won't let His leaders lead you astray."
Interesting perspective. I like it.
Re: We will not and cannot lead you astray
Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2014 8:12 pm
by _Sanctorian
Jonah wrote:The last time the missionaries dropped by I mentioned to them that this is probably the strongest and truest prophecy that exists in the church. When they looked at me with a confused expression I said, "Just look at how the Lord backed things up by taking out Joseph Smith."
If I were the church, I would dump all the "martyr" talk, point to Bro Joe marrying 14 year old girls and other men's wives, busting up printing presses, Book of Abraham, etc., and say, "The Lord finally had enough of his baloney. See...He won't let His leaders lead you astray."
I think there is a movement happening within Mormonism with this very idea. Joe was the prophet of the restoration when he created the Book of Mormon, but once that was finished, he lost his prophetic calling as evidenced by polygamy and the Book of Abraham.
Re: We will not and cannot lead you astray
Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2014 9:31 pm
by _Bazooka
What a difference a year makes....
And, to be perfectly frank, there have been times when members or leaders in the Church have simply made mistakes. There may have been things said or done that were not in harmony with our values, principles, or doctrine.
I wish they'd make their mind up.
Re: We will not and cannot lead you astray
Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2014 9:45 pm
by _Sammy Jankins
Bazooka wrote:What a difference a year makes....
And, to be perfectly frank, there have been times when members or leaders in the Church have simply made mistakes. There may have been things said or done that were not in harmony with our values, principles, or doctrine.
I wish they'd make their mind up.
It's all about context. In the context of explaining racist doctrines taught for 100+ years, prophets have made mistakes and have said things that are not in harmony with doctrine.
In the context of the current leadership you shouldn't question them because they can not and will not lead you astray.
Re: We will not and cannot lead you astray
Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2014 9:52 pm
by _SteelHead
By we, does it mean each member of the 15 as a prophet, seer, and revealator, or only when they speak collectively?