Running with Terryl and Fiona Givens

[_mentalgymnast]

Out on my runs the last couple of days I've been listening to a Mormon Stories podcast with Terryl and Fiona Givens. For those that haven't listened to it yet...parts one and two...I'd highly recommend it. For those of you that periodically might give something I've written a glance or quick read through you might see a high degree of philosophical coalescence between the assumptions/paradigm I operate within and that which the Givens seem to also adhere to in their faith walk. I found that as I listened to this podcast I was going, "Yeah, that's where I've been and that's where I'm at." And the thing is, I've paralleled their assumption platform and paradigm shifts pretty much on my own.

Anyway, fun stuff. For those that are open to some possibly new and different ways of approaching the LDS faith, this podcast is a "must listen".

The experience shared by James Patterson in the first episode may more than likely find some common ground with some folks hanging out around these parts.

http://mormonstories.org/fiona-and-terr ... -of-doubt/

Regards,
MG

[_badseed]

I found the podcast interesting. My problem though with the Given's approach is that the Mormonism I experience at Church is vastly different from what they seem to experience. Maybe that has to do with the fact that I am in the heart of the Wastch Front and they are in the mission field. Also apparently I no longer find the positive things in Mormonism they do. Without these things that motivate one to make it work— it just becomes work.

I have to admit I'd be much more likely to consider engaging if more members thought like they do.

[_mentalgymnast]

I found the podcast interesting. My problem though with the Given's approach is that the Mormonism I experience at Church is vastly different from what they seem to experience. Maybe that has to do with the fact that I am in the heart of the Wastch Front and they are in the mission field. Also apparently I no longer find the positive things in Mormonism they do. Without these things that motivate one to make it work— it just becomes work.

I have to admit I'd be much more likely to consider engaging if more members thought like they do.

They as a matter of fact said in the podcast you listened to that their ward in central Virginia (if I remember correctly) is a very traditional ward made up of a congregation whose primary qualities are orthodoxy and conservatism...and very little questioning.

Probably a lot like the ward you attend(ed) and didn't have such a great experience. They've been able to make it work and actually appreciate and love the people they associate with in their geographically rural ward. At least I'm pretty sure they're somewhere out in the sticks from having listened to them.

Regards,
MG

[_mentalgymnast]

I have to admit I'd be much more likely to consider engaging if more members thought like they do.

In the podcast Bro. Givens tells about visiting a High Priest's group in Provo, Utah and hearing/asking (can't remember which) the question asked to the group, " How many of you or someone close to you have had or are having a faith crisis in regards to the church?"...or something like that. He said that out of around 40 men that were there all the hands except one went up. This was in the heart of Provo.

It's time to be more open. And I think it's happening. I had a couple of guys in my own HP group bring up Gospel Topics this last Sunday and specifically the recent polygamy article that has been added to Topics.

So...I would have you consider that there are more people than you might think who are willing to engage in conversations about questions/doubts. Even at church. I think that there will gradually be more folks that aren't unwilling to bring up and discuss issues within a church setting. It's a fun time to be a member of the church and see things light up a bit. And it will be even more interesting to see the conversations start to happen at church rather than in 'secret' online forums such as this.

Crucible of Doubt, the Given's most recent book is being sold and published by Deseret Book. Who woulda thought?

Regards,
MG

[_ludwigm]

Again and again...
Podcasts, videos and presentations are for analphabets.

Literates could get the meaning by times of 10-20-200-whatever speed than listening podcasts/watching videos --- if there is (would be) a text to read.

Sorry, folks.

[_No_Hidden_Agenda]

The Givens' approach requires so much "fitting the Scriptures to our own paradigm" rather than "adjusting our paradigm to the scriptures" that it makes Mormonism into a fuzzy cloud of multiple interpretations of truth.

The things that hold it together seem to be so generic (Atonement, Faith, Repentance, etc) that it isn't really Mormonism at all.

[_Craig Paxton]

For those of you that periodically might give something I've written a glance or quick read through you might see a high degree of philosophical coalescence between the assumptions/paradigm I operate within and that which the Givens seem to also adhere to in their faith walk.

Regards,
MG

Ok I now get where you are coming from MG. I listened to this podcast when it was first released. The Givens, Bushman and you...all subscribe to a brand of Mormonism founded in "Nuance". From my perspective this is the only form of Mormonism that makes any scenes in light of church history. However, Nuanced Mormonism is not true Mormonism to me it is just a “thoughtful” branch of cafeteria Mormonism.

[_mentalgymnast]

The Givens, Bushman and you...all subscribe to a brand of Mormonism founded in "Nuance". From my perspective this is the only form of Mormonism that makes any scenes in light of church history. However, Nuanced Mormonism is not true Mormonism to me it is just a “thoughtful” branch of cafeteria Mormonism.

As I look at the world around me and the cosmos above me I see nuance...subtle differences and/or distinctions in expression, meaning, colors, light, etc. There is very little I see that is black and white. This world is a world of grays and degrees of opaqueness/transparency. I see nuance in looking at Mormonism to be a natural.

Regards,
MG

[_No_Hidden_Agenda]

As I look at the world around me and the cosmos above me I see nuance...subtle differences and/or distinctions in expression, meaning, colors, light, etc. There is very little I see that is black and white. This world is a world of grays and degrees of opaqueness/transparency. I see nuance in looking at Mormonism to be a natural.

Regards,
MG

Does that come with moral relativism?

[_badseed]

Probably a lot like the ward you attend(ed) and didn't have such a great experience. They've been able to make it work and actually appreciate and love the people they associate with in their geographically rural ward. At least I'm pretty sure they're somewhere out in the sticks from having listened to them.

My experience wasn't necessarily bad— I just no longer see the work it takes to make Mormonism 'work' worth it. For years I did what I should because the Church was true and I was supposed to get myself in line. Don't know that I ever did because I just really loved it. For all the choice that Terryl speaks of there is something the Given's experience that makes swimming against the current worth it for them. That doesn't exist for me.

And I think Mormon wards being more liberal and open is a function of being inside the Morridor vs. outside as much as rural vs. non. That's just me though.