Insider needed-How much does MOTAB Director make?

[_maklelan]

Mak, when I asked you if the missionaries were adults...... well it was with a purpose.

Do they not count as adult members?

They are generally quite naïve when it comes to these questions. They're right on the cusp of adulthood. I don't remember if I answered your question, but they were not who I had in mind when I spoke about adult members.

I have discussed this topic with several dozen members. It is the rare member that knows about the stipends.

Then you must circulate with exceptionally uninformed Latter-day Saints.

[_SteelHead]

You have evidence that I have met adult members of the Church that think GAs don't receive a stipend?

You personally, no. Adult members in general.... well, I did ask you to survey the missionaries as they are adults with whom, you by your own admission regularly interact.
I provided two examples of this belief from missionaries at lds.org. They are legally adults and are out proselyting to the world. Though they are often woefully ignorant of their own religion. If I were to conduct a similar survey amongst the missionaries about whether the wine Jesus produced miraculously was alcoholic, the majority would say, "no it was just grape juice", despite what Talmage wrote on the topic.

As to the members I circulate with, I reckon they are a pretty good representation of who shows up in the pews on Sundays.

Though I too used to work for the church (CES), and most of those folks would have known that the GAs receive stipends. I have some old pay-stubs around here some where....... Then again one of them liked to teach how Mary Magdalene was married to Jesus and fled with Jesus's children to England with Joseph of Arimathea. To top it off, he liked to teach that Joseph Smith and many of the early brethren are direct descendants of said progeny. So that crowd is not real representative of the majority of those in the pews.

[_maklelan]

You personally, no. Adult members in general.... well, I did ask you to survey them as they are adults with whom, you by your own admission regularly interact.
I provided two examples of it from missionaries at lds.org. They are legally adults and are out proselyting to the world.

As to the members I circulate with, I reckon they are a pretty good representation of who shows up in the pews on Sundays.

Though I too used to work for the church (CES), and most of those folks would have known that the GAs receive stipends. I have some old pay-stubs around here some where....... Then again one of them liked to teach how Mary Magdalene was married to Jesus and fled with Jesus's children to England with Joseph of Arimathea. To top it off, he liked to teach that Joseph Smith and many of the early brethren are direct descendants of said progeny. So that crowd is not real representative of the majority of those in the pews.

Some people have weird ideas. I will report on the results of the survey I put online in a couple days. It is not impossible that I may have become a little distanced from the hoi polloi in the Church, but I do spend quite a bit of time working with closely them in different places around the world, so I'm not convinced I'm wrong yet. I particularly don't think the majority of the Church thinks GAs receive no compensation whatsoever. As I've stated, the Church unilaterally acknowledges that in conference, on its website, in seminary manuals, etc. No one can pretend they have been at all mislead about that.

[_Tim the Enchanter]

A few minutes ago...

Mormon.org:
Hello There! what can we help you with today?

Me:
Hi, I'm trying to clarify something someone told me about your church.

How do the leaders (from the prophet on down) support themselves financially?

Mormon.org:
None of the local clergy are paid but some of the people like the prophet are given a small amount to live on.

Me:
Oh, ok. How many people get that small amount? Do you know? Does anyone know how much that amount is?

Mormon.org:
I don't know the amount that is given, but many of them are retired and don't need much. And we are also not sure on exactly how many receive it. But i do know that Prophets are called of god. I know that they dedicate their entire lives to the ministry, and i know that the Prophet and his Apostles are honest men.

Me:
Ok. Thanks for your time. That's all for now.

[Guest]

I agree that is t has been taught at times that there is a stipend. My experience with the general populace of the church is that most are ignorant of this fact, and believe instead that the brethren made enough money before being called to support themselves in their callings. The Mormon.org comments also seem to support that this is the majority opinion.

Ex:

W. Stacy E. answered...

Tithing is a huge blessing. The funds for tithing are used for building and edifying the Kingdom of God. All the proceeds go to building temples, meetinghouses. They are also used to help those who are in need for a mission or school, and to help move the Gospel forward in materials needed and for Temple and family history work. Not a single penny goes to paying our leaders and teachers of the Church. Their calling is voluntary.

Bree answered...

All tithing goes to paying the electricity for the buildings, paying for the water bills, paying for the construction of buildings, and helping those who are in need. Stuff like that but NO leaders are payed for their serveses.

Michael answered...

Tithing, or 10 of our income donated to the Church, is a divine law mentioned in the Old Testament most notably in the book of Malachi. Tithing is donated anonymously and given to a member of the bishopric or branch presidency, where a careful, secure record is kept of all donations. This money is then sent to Salt Lake City where members of a council including the First Presidency and Presiding Bishopric make careful, prayerful decisions on how to use tithing money. This money is used to support Church activities such as building meetinghouses and temples, and paying for missionary materials such as copies of the Book of Mormon, pamphlets, and pass-along cards. It is not, however, used to pay the leadership in the Church, who are unpaid by the Church

Erik Midgley answered...

Unlike other churches, we don't have a paid ministry. All of the tithing money goes to building and maintaining churches and temples, paying for the materials that the missionaries give out to the people they teach, ie. Book of Mormon, pamphlets, cards, DVD's, ect., to fund education programs, and also to help those in need.

For everyone that acknowledges a stipend there are 10 who insist otherwise.

[_Fence Sitter]

I told my boss I wanted a raise,
He said he was told no one was getting raises.
So I explained that he could call the additional money a stipend and that way he wouldn't really be giving me a raise.

[_Tim the Enchanter]

My initial thought on this discussion was that it is common knowledge that the GA's get paid something. As I recall, this was common knowledge when I was growing up in the church.

But if a neutral third party tried to answer this question by searching on Mormon.org, I think there is a very good chance they would be misinformed. In the FAQ's, theres a section about why the church has no paid clergy. Reading through the information and comments here gives the impression that no one is paid.

And if you search the site for "is the prophet paid," you find this gem without needing to scroll down too far:

Code: Select all

Nowhere in our church is there a paid position. Not the Prophet, not his Apostles, Bishops or anyone is paid for their calling. Secretarial positions and other administrative positions are paid, but these positions are full times jobs for something not related directly to our gospel, in theory, people in these positions do not need to be Mormon, though almost all are. The reason we do not have paid clergy is because all of the money our church has comes from member tithing, which is a commandment of the lord to give 10% of all our income to the church. This money is used by the church to build new temples, service projects, aid to low income families, aid to low income missionaries, and many other charitable things. Thus, our clergy does not wish or need to take from this supply of money, as it goes to a better cause. Our church leaders support themselves, while still giving all they can to our church and to the Lord. It also keeps corruption out of our leadership, put simply, if this church is true (and I know that it is) then why would anyone need to be paid for their service? If it were true, wouldn't God take care of those servants? And, he does, without fail!

[_Tim the Enchanter]

Another Mormon.org chat. Looks like it's hit or miss with the Mormon.org missionaries.

Me:
Hi, I'm hoping you can clarify something for me.

How do the leaders (from the prophet on down) support themselves?

On Mormon.org I searched for "is the prophet paid" and one of the people in particular that responded said that they didn't. But I've also heard they do get paid. What's the truth?

if you search the main page search bar for 'is the prophet paid' and scroll down to Brandon's response, you should see what I'm talking about

Missionary #1:
We have what's called a "lay ministry", where no leaders of the church get paid. It's all volunteer work. They all have their own jobs and careers and families, and when they're called to an assignment they fill it without getting money in return.

Me:
but there has to be some leaders that work full time for the church. they would have to be paid, wouldn't they?

Missionary #2:
Well, Christ didn't pay the apostles, right? He promised that they would be provided for, but he never gave them a paycheck or gave them a certain amount of money for what they did. Serving in the church isn't a job. It's a service. They do it willingly as disciples of Christ to help others.

Me:
Ok, but practically speaking, how do the full time church leaders pay for things? they have to live and eat like everyone else, don't they? and take care of their families, etc

Missionary #1:
There are certain positions like you said that are full time and they do have a choice to serve but they also when serving in certain cases have church housing and such that provide for them but they do not receive a salary or just money for what they do. Does that answer your question?

Me:
Sorta. It's just kind of confusing because I've heard conflicting things. Some people tell me the full time leaders get paid for their living expenses and such, but it seems like you are saying they don't

Missionary #1:
So when they say paid its just poor use of words they do not get paid they just are provided for in the way of housing and food ext. They are not paid. When you take any calling in our church it is a volunteer position. If it is full time the church provided necessary things but a lot of what they have is their own. Usually the full time positions are given to people who have the ability to serve and again they can always choose not to :) hope that helps

Missionary #2:
They don't get paid. Here's a link about it on Mormon.org: http://www.Mormon.org/faq/topic/church/ ... aid-clergy

Me:
Thanks Missionary #1, that helps.

so it sounds like if they are full time, they get money for housing and food etc.
do you know how much they get? if they need it, that is

Missionary #2, is the clergy just the local person like the bishop, or is the clergy the prophet too?

Missionary #2
The word clergy technically refers to anyone in a leadership position in the church. The article focuses mostly on local leadership, but it's the same concept throughout.

Me:
ok, gotcha. thanks. I guess that's all the questions I have at the moment. I heard different things and thought I'd ask. have a nice day! :-)

I don't expect everyone to be an expert on everything in the church, but I'm honestly surprised at how much confusion there seems to be on the full-time leaders getting paid. I thought it was common knowledge that they were paid something, but there is more misinformation on this topic than I expected at Mormon.org.

[_SteelHead]

An aside. I am quite tempted to do the missionary chat water to wine alcoholic or not survey....

[_maklelan]

Survey Monkey results up to this point: