Uh no. The problem seems either that you have never actually read the material or you are just dishonest. Probably both. What Hales is stating, and I'm not disputing, is that the commandment to live polygamy was likely revealed by an angel. That was not atypical of revelations that Joseph Smith received. However, that has nothing to do with the urban legend that the angel appeared with a flaming sword threatening Joseph Smith to live polygamy, which is what he is talking about and what he goes in-depth in pointing out the problems with the story. This is something you would know if you'd actually read what he said (or weren't trying to deceive people). The fact you misrepresent what he says just means you are either an imbecile or openly dishonest, which isn't news to anyone that has read your posts on this forum.
It was a drawn sword, not a flaming one. It is clear someone has not actually read Hales article.
"Any over-ritualized religion since the dawn of time can make its priests say yes, we know, it is rotten, and hard luck, but just do as we say, keep at the ritual, stick it out, give us your money and you'll end up with the angels in heaven for evermore."
Fence Sitter wrote:It was a drawn sword, not a flaming one. It is clear someone has not actually read Hales article.
Yawn. So that is all you've got?!? Fine. The drawn sword is an urban legend. I'm a big boy and can admit I embellished my response a bit. Of course, you can't admit you misrepresented what Hales was discussing in the slightest because you are dishonest.
"You lack vision, but I see a place where people get on and off the freeway. On and off, off and on all day, all night.... Tire salons, automobile dealerships and wonderful, wonderful billboards reaching as far as the eye can see. My God, it'll be beautiful." -- Judge Doom
No, it's Church historical fact, have you read any of the recent essays?
I'm a big boy and can admit I embellished my response a bit.
Yeah, I knew you'd invented the girl.
Of course, you can't admit you misrepresented what Hales was discussing in the slightest because you are dishonest.
Before you admitted your embellishment, by your standard, you were dishonest.
That said, with the Book of Mormon, we are not dealing with a civilization with no written record. What we are dealing with is a written record with no civilization. (Runtu, Feb 2015)
Fence Sitter wrote:It was a drawn sword, not a flaming one. It is clear someone has not actually read Hales article.
Yawn. So that is all you've got?!? Fine. The drawn sword is an urban legend. I'm a big boy and can admit I embellished my response a bit. Of course, you can't admit you misrepresented what Hales was discussing in the slightest because you are dishonest.
Hales quotes 20 different accounts from 9 different witnesses.
Hales notes that
B Hales wrote:A review of Joseph Smith's previous heavenly manifestations fails to identify any analogous types of threats, Even when he and Martin Harris lost the 116 translated pages of the Book of Lehi the reprimand was milder. Throughout all of Joseph's interactions with deity, no other episodes of life-threatening proddings were reported. On the other hand, Joseph Smith's foot-dragging may have provoked the heavens as never before."
Hales also notes a similarity with the Biblical story of Balaam where an angel with a sword threatened him.
So clearly I am misrepresenting Hales by using his own words.
"Any over-ritualized religion since the dawn of time can make its priests say yes, we know, it is rotten, and hard luck, but just do as we say, keep at the ritual, stick it out, give us your money and you'll end up with the angels in heaven for evermore."
fetchface wrote:Hales never questions the veracity of the story of the angel and the sword. He accepts the evidence and believes the story.
Where is Tobin going with this?
Well you see, once this angel appeared to Tobin (maybe it was an alien or an alien angel who knows) right when he was in the middle of his very own Fanny Alger affair but instead of demanding that he plow the field, as it were, instead Tobin was told by his celestial visitor to cease and desist. Sort of an angelic interruptus if you will.
So perhaps it is just jealousy on Tobin's part.
"Any over-ritualized religion since the dawn of time can make its priests say yes, we know, it is rotten, and hard luck, but just do as we say, keep at the ritual, stick it out, give us your money and you'll end up with the angels in heaven for evermore."
Yes, because the same god who leads a war over our right to choose later sends an angel to slay a man who won't engage in polygamy..... Makes perfect sense.
Brian Hales is insane.
It is better to be a warrior in a garden, than a gardener at war.
Some of us, on the other hand, actually prefer a religion that includes some type of correlation with reality. ~Bill Hamblin
fetchface wrote:Hales never questions the veracity of the story of the angel and the sword. He accepts the evidence and believes the story.
Where is Tobin going with this?
Well you see, once this angel appeared to Tobin (maybe it was an alien or an alien angel who knows) right when he was in the middle of his very own Fanny Alger affair but instead of demanding that he plow the field, as it were, instead Tobin was told by his celestial visitor to cease and desist. Sort of an angelic interruptus if you will.
So perhaps it is just jealousy on Tobin's part.
Now you are just being a jackass. Back to ignore.
"You lack vision, but I see a place where people get on and off the freeway. On and off, off and on all day, all night.... Tire salons, automobile dealerships and wonderful, wonderful billboards reaching as far as the eye can see. My God, it'll be beautiful." -- Judge Doom
SteelHead wrote:Yes, because the same god who leads a war over our right to choose later sends an angel to slay a man who won't engage in polygamy..... Makes perfect sense.
Brian Hales is insane.
So much for JSJr's free agency, and being that ever faithful servant of god. The angel with drawn sword is a two-fer against LDS myth teachings.
fetchface wrote:Hales never questions the veracity of the story of the angel and the sword. He accepts the evidence and believes the story. Where is Tobin going with this?
Hales explores the issue. Something critics here seem unable to do. And Hales makes the points I do and lists many of reasons I stated in my prior post as my objection to the story. Despite the reasons to doubt the story, Hales concludes there was a threat because Joseph Smith is seemingly reluctance to live polygamy and then suddenly is earnest desire to do so. However, that seems like a rather odd conclusion to reach if you believe the claim that he took Fanny Alger as his first polygamous wife in 1833? So if he is already living polygamy, why does an angel need to threaten him to live something he's already doing?
"You lack vision, but I see a place where people get on and off the freeway. On and off, off and on all day, all night.... Tire salons, automobile dealerships and wonderful, wonderful billboards reaching as far as the eye can see. My God, it'll be beautiful." -- Judge Doom