DiscussMormonism.com

mentalgymnast wrote: Well, we then get into issues such as agency, choice, coercion, and what have you.

Your position is moot when discussing the carrot/stick routine your dogma has established... much more so when considering an omniscient/omnipresent god who can see and control the 4th dimension.

Finn the human wrote:MG,

First some flattery. Maybe I shouldn't encourage you but thank you for the thought provoking ideas/questions/view points.

Finn the human wrote: A quick question: why is God's parenting style different or necessary vs the parenting we give to our kids or received from our parents? More to the point, why if I give clear rules and expectations, and take a physical/active role in my kids life is it not infringing on their agency etc?

Some Schmo wrote:

DrW wrote:Once one comes to the realization that God - any god - is a pure product of the human mind, and nothing more, the suppositions listed by Sethbag's human mind do indeed become the suppositions of God.

Why is this clearly self evident reality so hard for adults (especially reasonably educated adults) to grasp?

Because they're too busy imagining their fantasy as reality to be distracted by the fact that it's only a fantasy.

Just like it's really easy to solve other people's problems, it's much easier to see other people's mental defects than our own.

ETA: I've started thinking that god belief is a defense mechanism, kind of like a child who checks out when being intensely abused. When under the duress that is every day living, I see god belief as a vital need some people have to cope, reality notwithstanding.

Gunnar wrote:MG,

What it comes down to is this: As even you seem to acknowledge (at least inadvertently), much of the arguments and rational you are using to defend Mormonism can be and have been used to defend continued belief in virtually anything whatsoever that one dearly wants to believe. There is really no unambiguous criterion or method for determining that the religious belief system to which you subscribe is actually more likely to be true or better than most competing or contrary religious belief systems that exist. There is no justification I am aware of that is even the slightest bit compelling, to me, for concluding that Mormon truth claims are any less the product of human minds and imagination than any other concepts or precepts available to us.

Gunnar wrote:Why, then, does it make even a scintilla of difference which, if any, religion one chooses to subscribe or not subscribe to, as long as one respects the rights of others and refrains from abusing and taking unfair advantage of others whose beliefs one doesn't share?

Gunnar wrote:Why should anyone conclude that Mormonism is necessarily better or more correct or more likely to be divinely inspired than any other religion, especially in the face of so much clear evidence that much of its truth claims and historical narrative about itself is so highly questionable?

KevinSim wrote:I simply can't cope with my conscientious obligation to work toward the welfare of the entire human race, including untold generations of the unborn, so I use as a defense mechanism my faith in a deity who oversees that specific obligation, and helps me to see my share in it. That way I don't stress out over the enormity of the problem.

God, give me grace to accept with serenity
the things that cannot be changed,
Courage to change the things
which should be changed,
and the Wisdom to distinguish
the one from the other.
Living one day at a time,
Enjoying one moment at a time,
Accepting hardship as a pathway to peace,
Taking, as Jesus did,
This sinful world as it is,
Not as I would have it,
Trusting that You will make all things right,
If I surrender to Your will,
So that I may be reasonably happy in this life,
And supremely happy with You forever in the next.

LookingLooking wrote:

KevinSim wrote:And in fact the Book of Mormon never says that we should accept it because the Book of Mormon says it's reliable. One should accept that it's reliable because it makes sense, not because the book authorizes it. If one has faith in a good God who loves us each individually and wants each of us individually to know that God's will, then it simply makes sense that that God will answer a question asked Her/Him, as long as the asker is fully prepared to change her/his life based on God's answer to her/his question. When someone has a desperate need that only God can fill, God steps in to fill it. And if that desperate need is to discover the will of God in one's life, so that that one can change that one's life in accordance with God's will, it's pretty clear to me that only God can fill that need.

KevinSim, how do you explain the fact that people in many other religions pray and ask God which religion is the most correct and receive different answers?

LookingLooking wrote:Is it your position that none of those people are willing to change their life based on God's answer? Only Mormons are?

Themis wrote:

KevinSim wrote:DrW, how have you come to the conclusion that any God is such a product?

How did you come to the idea that some Gods are real? You have admitted to no real evidence, and that you believe only because you don't like the idea of a universe with no God. You have made assumptions from the beginning to end. It's pointless and in the end you believe what ever you like. I suggest Dr. W is being reasonable and not believing things for which there is a major lack of evidence. Why would this assumed Good God not provide him with the necessary knowledge he exists and what he wants?