AN EVENING WITH NIGHTLION (WARNING: long)
Posted: Thu Nov 27, 2014 1:07 am
Dear MormonDiscussions.com participants:
Knowing that I needed to make a pilgrimage to the Apocalrock Visitors' Center at least once in my life, I finally got around to booking an appointment for last night. I was none too soon, because he'll be moving offices. . . and, correspondingly, moving the visitors' center. . . beginning today.
Nightlion helpfully had the outside lights turned on, making it much easier to find the place. I was right on time! He greeted me warmly, shook my hand, then began showing me "the sights," as it were. He has posted images of the visitors' center before, but the place didn't correspond to my memory of them. When I pointed this out, he told me that this is the second location he's had since those photos were posted, hence the difference.
There's probably little need to describe the environs, because they're soon to change, so I'll skip that part.
I was surprised to find out that Nightlion has dabbled a little in cartooning, too. They looked to be drawn up in Microsoft Paint or a similar program. They were in full color and he had them matted and mounted on the wall. A couple of them referred to the overthrow of Zion. The first one would be very difficult to explain, but the second one showed the exterior "sculpture" in front of Salt Lake City's most recognizable convention center, the Salt Palace. He pointed out that it was an overturned beehive being held aloft (in triumph, perhaps)? I had to admit that I hadn't considered that before.
Then it was on to the photos of the Apocalrock, otherwise known as Mount Olympus. If you're familiar with the Salt Lake Valley, it's the mountain directly in front of you as you travel east on 4500 South. I had never known which particular mountain it was until now.
These enlarged photos were slipped into what looked to be briefcase-sized leather display things (I apologize for not knowing the actual name). These were hanging from display pegs that were in turn mounted on rolling things that looked like a cross between a cubicle wall and an easel (another item whose name I don't know).
Anyway, the photos were taken from many different angles. Most of them helpfully also had a miniature pen drawing of the religious images to be found in the photo, which drawing was also slipped behind the clear plastic but above the corner of the photo. Nevertheless, approximately 100% of the time I still had to have my host point out the images in the photos.
Some of the images, upon having them literally pointed out to me--sometimes with his finger, sometimes with the tip of a pen--were easier to see than others. A couple of them were quite plain with just a little instruction, while many others I was barely able to see even after repeated attempts on Nightlion's part. . . and I'm still not entirely sure I got. Most of the images, though, fell somewhere in between--"seeable" once they were shown to me.
He told me that some of the images can only be seen at certain times of the year, when the sun lies at a specific angle. Others, for the same reason, can only be seen at certain times of the day. To Nightlion's credit, he freely admitted that occasionally even he has a hard time seeing something that was plain to him in previous viewings.
Also to my surprise, there are a couple of other images in the mountains to the north and south of the Apocalrock, too. Not many, though.
On my own I have never been able to see what Nightlion was seeing in the photos he has posted here over the years, no matter how hard I've tried, so it was quite an interesting experience to finally be able to see them for the first time ever. I would almost say it's a talent on his part to so easily do so. Finally being able to see what he saw was a very interesting experience, and I mean that literally.
At one point he, uh, pointed out an aspect of the Book of Mormon that I hadn't noticed before: The Jaredite nation, and its records, ends with a beheading (Shiz's), while the Nephite nation, and its records, begins with a beheading (Laban's).
After this we spent some time talking about Nightlion's childhood, especially his family situation. We even talked about his father's life before Nightlion was born. For privacy purposes I won't disclose anything, but let me just say that the conversation was engrossing. And further the deponent saith not.
We also talked about the LDS Church and the reasons why, in my host's view, it is in a state of apostasy. Remember a few years ago when Nightlion talked about the druids? Well, to him, this is more of a catch-all term for Satanists or others who seek to overthrow God's works and kingdom, especially those native to the British Isles. They simply trace their lineage back to the druids. Anyway, his view is that Lorenzo Snow, while in Britain, "sold the church out" by inviting such unsavory characters to emigrate to the U.S.A. and infiltrate the church from within--all during Joseph Smith's lifetime. Both Lorenzo and his sister, Eliza, were educated and thus looked down upon Joseph as a country bumpkin of sorts and sought to depose him, doctrinally and/or literally. Nightlion reports that it was the corrupt Lorenzo Snow who really pushed for the "we will become gods" doctrine in Mormonism. He also believes that Snow was literally a son of perdition.
Switching gears a little, he told me that, as a teenager, President Hinckley was a "towel boy" at the old Deseret Gym that was routinely frequented by general authorities back in the day. He further reports that Hinckley started working for the church and in rather close proximity to its highest leadership very soon after his mission, which may make one wonder whether Hinckley had any "dirt" on one or more of these people.
A little more interestingly, he reported another coincidence that I hadn't noticed: That once Hinckley became a senior apostle, the presidents of the church either died off rapidly (Smith, Lee, and Hunter) or became mentally incapacitated for long periods of their tenure (Kimball and Benson).
So, those were the activities and the topics of conversation. But what are my impressions of Nighlion himself, you may ask?
Well, after KimberlyAnn reported him being in a rather agitated state at one of the ExMormon conferences--confronting one of the presenters--and me being quite familiar with the usual forcefulness of his writings here, I admit that I approached this meeting with a little bit of trepidation. I was half-expecting a "street preacher" persona at best.
With that in mind, imagine my surprise when I found a rather soft-spoken man with no indication of hysteria. His thoughts were very on-track and organized. He was quick to acknowledge his shortcomings and was very matter-of-fact with his presentations. Although he had full confidence in what he was showing me, he was very polite, never seeking to browbeat me with his opinions or otherwise force me to adopt his way of thinking. (Of course, it was never my intent to be confrontational, as I was there to learn, not to teach.) Physically, I had always pictured him as being much taller than my 5'8" frame, but he comes in at about 5'10", perhaps slightly more. [CORRECTION: His height while wearing cowboy boots is 6'3", so you figure he's 6'1" or so.]
I wonder. . . other than the clothing, does Nightlion match what one would expect from an Old Testament-style prophet? Could a religious seeker do much worse?
All in all I spent just under two hours with Nightlion. Apparently five other members of this board have also come to the visitors' center in years past--you know who you are, so "decloak" if you wish. Although the lateness of the hour had me worried that I was perhaps imposing, he kindly made it clear that it was the highlight of his day and that it was a privilege to show his material.
As for me, I highly recommend that anyone who is familiar with Nightlion's posts about the Apocalrock give him a call and see the visitors' center if you're ever in or near the Salt Lake Valley area. You won't be disappointed.
NIGHTLION: If anything in this post is erroneous, send me a message and I'll make the required correction(s).
Knowing that I needed to make a pilgrimage to the Apocalrock Visitors' Center at least once in my life, I finally got around to booking an appointment for last night. I was none too soon, because he'll be moving offices. . . and, correspondingly, moving the visitors' center. . . beginning today.
Nightlion helpfully had the outside lights turned on, making it much easier to find the place. I was right on time! He greeted me warmly, shook my hand, then began showing me "the sights," as it were. He has posted images of the visitors' center before, but the place didn't correspond to my memory of them. When I pointed this out, he told me that this is the second location he's had since those photos were posted, hence the difference.
There's probably little need to describe the environs, because they're soon to change, so I'll skip that part.
I was surprised to find out that Nightlion has dabbled a little in cartooning, too. They looked to be drawn up in Microsoft Paint or a similar program. They were in full color and he had them matted and mounted on the wall. A couple of them referred to the overthrow of Zion. The first one would be very difficult to explain, but the second one showed the exterior "sculpture" in front of Salt Lake City's most recognizable convention center, the Salt Palace. He pointed out that it was an overturned beehive being held aloft (in triumph, perhaps)? I had to admit that I hadn't considered that before.
Then it was on to the photos of the Apocalrock, otherwise known as Mount Olympus. If you're familiar with the Salt Lake Valley, it's the mountain directly in front of you as you travel east on 4500 South. I had never known which particular mountain it was until now.
These enlarged photos were slipped into what looked to be briefcase-sized leather display things (I apologize for not knowing the actual name). These were hanging from display pegs that were in turn mounted on rolling things that looked like a cross between a cubicle wall and an easel (another item whose name I don't know).
Anyway, the photos were taken from many different angles. Most of them helpfully also had a miniature pen drawing of the religious images to be found in the photo, which drawing was also slipped behind the clear plastic but above the corner of the photo. Nevertheless, approximately 100% of the time I still had to have my host point out the images in the photos.
Some of the images, upon having them literally pointed out to me--sometimes with his finger, sometimes with the tip of a pen--were easier to see than others. A couple of them were quite plain with just a little instruction, while many others I was barely able to see even after repeated attempts on Nightlion's part. . . and I'm still not entirely sure I got. Most of the images, though, fell somewhere in between--"seeable" once they were shown to me.
He told me that some of the images can only be seen at certain times of the year, when the sun lies at a specific angle. Others, for the same reason, can only be seen at certain times of the day. To Nightlion's credit, he freely admitted that occasionally even he has a hard time seeing something that was plain to him in previous viewings.
Also to my surprise, there are a couple of other images in the mountains to the north and south of the Apocalrock, too. Not many, though.
On my own I have never been able to see what Nightlion was seeing in the photos he has posted here over the years, no matter how hard I've tried, so it was quite an interesting experience to finally be able to see them for the first time ever. I would almost say it's a talent on his part to so easily do so. Finally being able to see what he saw was a very interesting experience, and I mean that literally.
At one point he, uh, pointed out an aspect of the Book of Mormon that I hadn't noticed before: The Jaredite nation, and its records, ends with a beheading (Shiz's), while the Nephite nation, and its records, begins with a beheading (Laban's).
After this we spent some time talking about Nightlion's childhood, especially his family situation. We even talked about his father's life before Nightlion was born. For privacy purposes I won't disclose anything, but let me just say that the conversation was engrossing. And further the deponent saith not.
We also talked about the LDS Church and the reasons why, in my host's view, it is in a state of apostasy. Remember a few years ago when Nightlion talked about the druids? Well, to him, this is more of a catch-all term for Satanists or others who seek to overthrow God's works and kingdom, especially those native to the British Isles. They simply trace their lineage back to the druids. Anyway, his view is that Lorenzo Snow, while in Britain, "sold the church out" by inviting such unsavory characters to emigrate to the U.S.A. and infiltrate the church from within--all during Joseph Smith's lifetime. Both Lorenzo and his sister, Eliza, were educated and thus looked down upon Joseph as a country bumpkin of sorts and sought to depose him, doctrinally and/or literally. Nightlion reports that it was the corrupt Lorenzo Snow who really pushed for the "we will become gods" doctrine in Mormonism. He also believes that Snow was literally a son of perdition.
Switching gears a little, he told me that, as a teenager, President Hinckley was a "towel boy" at the old Deseret Gym that was routinely frequented by general authorities back in the day. He further reports that Hinckley started working for the church and in rather close proximity to its highest leadership very soon after his mission, which may make one wonder whether Hinckley had any "dirt" on one or more of these people.
A little more interestingly, he reported another coincidence that I hadn't noticed: That once Hinckley became a senior apostle, the presidents of the church either died off rapidly (Smith, Lee, and Hunter) or became mentally incapacitated for long periods of their tenure (Kimball and Benson).
So, those were the activities and the topics of conversation. But what are my impressions of Nighlion himself, you may ask?
Well, after KimberlyAnn reported him being in a rather agitated state at one of the ExMormon conferences--confronting one of the presenters--and me being quite familiar with the usual forcefulness of his writings here, I admit that I approached this meeting with a little bit of trepidation. I was half-expecting a "street preacher" persona at best.
With that in mind, imagine my surprise when I found a rather soft-spoken man with no indication of hysteria. His thoughts were very on-track and organized. He was quick to acknowledge his shortcomings and was very matter-of-fact with his presentations. Although he had full confidence in what he was showing me, he was very polite, never seeking to browbeat me with his opinions or otherwise force me to adopt his way of thinking. (Of course, it was never my intent to be confrontational, as I was there to learn, not to teach.) Physically, I had always pictured him as being much taller than my 5'8" frame, but he comes in at about 5'10", perhaps slightly more. [CORRECTION: His height while wearing cowboy boots is 6'3", so you figure he's 6'1" or so.]
I wonder. . . other than the clothing, does Nightlion match what one would expect from an Old Testament-style prophet? Could a religious seeker do much worse?
All in all I spent just under two hours with Nightlion. Apparently five other members of this board have also come to the visitors' center in years past--you know who you are, so "decloak" if you wish. Although the lateness of the hour had me worried that I was perhaps imposing, he kindly made it clear that it was the highlight of his day and that it was a privilege to show his material.
As for me, I highly recommend that anyone who is familiar with Nightlion's posts about the Apocalrock give him a call and see the visitors' center if you're ever in or near the Salt Lake Valley area. You won't be disappointed.
NIGHTLION: If anything in this post is erroneous, send me a message and I'll make the required correction(s).
