Dehlin, please go away

[_Zadok]

Good god, one of these days ME might be happy

That is hilarious. Haha. Oh that is priceless.

There is a greater chance that I will be invited back to NOM than Mayan Elephant will ever be happy about anything related to John Dehlin.

[_lostindc]

DCP likes to joke about Peterson Derangement Syndrome. Looks like there may be a related problem in Dehlin's case: DDS.

I have always liked lostindc. I have never quite understood why it is that he is so upset at Dehlin. Same with ME.

Thanks for the nice comment (bolded). As strange as it might sound, I have shown my wife many of your posts over the years and we have always found you to be one of the most insightful and brightest minds within the LDS community. We really appreciate this.

As for Dehlin, early on I enjoyed his podcasts and now I have this grudge against him because I feel like he is going for fame and pay. Along the way he seems to disregard the real pioneers that came before him such as yourself. The Kishkumens, Dr. Shades, and so many more were the real worker bees, not the Dehlin types. Dehlin got lucky being in the right place at the right time to capitalize on a movement that was already in play. Now the story has become about Dehlin and not the Church.

[_Gray Ghost]

?

sorry, just tired of Dehlin. He has taken over the pulpit with his ridiculous press releases, constant online postings, requests for donations, and other stupid actions. Dehlin makes DCP appear tame.

But just in case anyone wants to donate to Dehlin's super unique cause, the link is below.

http://mormonstories.org/donate/

Heaven forbid anyone get paid for working!

Just a bit of sarcasm there, no offense intended

[_Mayan Elephant]

Heaven forbid anyone get paid for working!

Just a bit of sarcasm there, no offense intended

ya know what, gray ghost. sarcasm or not, i think that this aspect is by far the most interesting thing dehlin has done. i think it is far and away the most valuable part of his public experience, personal life and career experiments. that thing being - make money.

it seems like dooce, another Mormon, was the real pioneer. but dehlin took that to a whole nuther level. i really believe that dehlin has more to offer than anyone in the damu, the bloggernacle or the COB/church when it comes to these 2 skills - using social media to reach and create clients and turning your hobby and skills into a career/income. i swear to god, of all the infomercial and self help and turn 1 dollar into a million seminars people pay for, i am convinced that dehlin would outclass and outshine any of his competitors in that field.

i think dehlin could not just show people how it is done, but really teach them how to fish so to speak.

where this experiment goes sideways for me, is the exploitation of people and the conflation with mental health. his ethics on that front make him a POS, but his mad skills on the stuff he started ten years ago, before this goddamn sideshow took over, is extremely commendable and something to notice.

[_Mayan Elephant]

HUGE favor to ask for those who are able/willing. I'm still trying to get to the bottom of this question: Can LDS church members remain members in good standing/full fellowship (with a temple recommend) and show public support for either Ordain Women and/or Same-Sex Marriage?

I have a favor to ask those of you who are willing (and feel safe to do so). Will you please email your bishops and/or stake presidents today with the following question:

"Dear [Bishop/Stake President],

I have a quick question to ask. Can I remain a member in good standing/full fellowship (with a temple recommend) in your [ward/stake] and show my public support for either 1) Ordain Women or 2) Same-Sex Marriage? Please let me know when you can."

Then (if you are able/willing) please send me the answers. I am happy to anonymize the responses to protect your confidentiality if you need that. Also, please consider doing this even if you are inactive, a post-Mormon, or an ex-Mormon. We only need 5 or 10 responses to obtain the information we need.

Thanks in advance.

another poe? i couldn't make that up if i tried.

this kind of crap from a mental health professional, or the owner of a mental health association, is unbelievable. frankly, i am shocked that any therapists and professionals continue to associate with him while he is doing crap like this.

any idea who "we" is in this need for information?

and is there any question, whatsoever, anywhere, that dehlin is a concern not for his beliefs on ssm or women, but for his insatiable appetite to harass local leaders, even those that are not his own leaders?

[_Tavares Standfield]

http://mormonstories.org/responses-from ... -marriage/

Damn. The responses are not going the way we need them to go.

Recently, my husband and I had the opportunity to sit and visit with one of the Apostles. At some point in the conversation, my husband said/asked something along the lines of “So, what if we (my wife and I) disagree with the you (the Twelve) on this topic? What if we absolutely support gay marriage? does that mean we don’t “support the brethern?” Can we still recieve/maintain a Temple recommend? His reply: “Absolutely. We can disagree with one each other politically or otherwise and still feel as though we have your “support.” He did, however, go on to share that he felt it was important for us to not walk/support/be seen at a Gay Pride parade (I even said: “even if it’s with Mormons Building Bridges?…You know, Mormons aiming to create a safe place for other fellow Mormons….so that all might feel included and welcome?”) He said: “We must never do anything that could be seen as pulling our fellow Brothers and Sisters away from the Gospel….or could be seen/interpreted as “apostate.” My husband reiterated: “So, we can still be in “good standing/recieve a Temple recommend if we support Gay marriage?…Can I share that with my Bishopric? Can I quote you on that?” His reply: “Absolutely.” It was Elder Todd Christofferson from the Quorum of the Twelve.

I’m currently serving as a bishop and my answer to your question is YES. I believe one can show support for same-sex-marriage and ordained women and still be in good standing in the church including holding a temple recommand.

I was on the high council when the federal judge struck down Utah’s same-sex marriage amendment. As I’m sure you know, shortly after the ruling, the church sent instructions to stake leaders regarding bishops not performing same-sex marriages, not allowing the use of church buildings for same-sex wedding receptions, etc.
I support same-sex marriage, and I figured I should let my stake president know. I spent an hour talking to him, letting him know where I stand, and to make a long story short, he said he still felt comfortable with me keeping my recommend and having me on the high council.
The only comment my stake president made to me when I was talking to him that made me think of your situation was, “Well, it’s not like you’re out their picketing for gay rights, right?” I told him picketing wasn’t really my style at the time, but that if an initiative to legalize same-sex marriage were on the ballot, I would vote for it and would encourage others to do the same.
I don’t know if there is a line of “public support” for same-sex marriage that I could have crossed that would have forced his hand, but he told me my political views and current actions weren’t an issue.

My OW profile was among the first 4 dozen on the website. And I have been fully public about my support for OW since I went to SLC for the first priesthood session action. I spoke to my bishop about that before I left, because he initiated a conversation with me to let me know he had read my Facebook posts and supported me. Since that time I have discussed this several different times. And I had a discussion with him and my SP back in May of last year. It wasn’t terribly positive in that they didn’t agree with me and expressed concern about “the path”, but discipline was never discussed.

I still have a temple recommend (renewed a year ago) and have been released and recalled into 2 different callings since Oct. 2013. I have been in the RS Presidency, the Primary Presidency and am now the ward music chairperson.

Hi John,
Here is the response from my Stake President:
“I would take each case on its merits, and it is likely the attitude and nuances that accompany his/her attitudes toward_____ (fill in the blank: SSM, OW, questioning of doctrine or history) that would tip the scales. There is a reason why “Judges in Israel” meet with people before a disciplinary council. It is to get a feel for the person’s heart as much as their behaviour.”
In further conversation, I reminded him that I disclosed my support of SSM and OW in my temple recommend interview, to which he responded: “I had forgotten your and my conversation in your temple recommend interview. That tells me I’ve lost no sleep over it.”

My Stake President said he was not interested in going after people who support female priesthood ordination or gay marriage, but he was deeply concerned about members who thought that actions or statements by the united First Presidency or Qo12 could have been in error. My guess is that we would have had a very different conversation if I had advocated or taught any of my views on SSM, OW or errors by prophets. My personal opinion: I don’t think you are being tried for your beliefs, but for your criticism and advocacy. Private and uncommon dissent is fine, but trying to change the Church or the culture by common consent will be seen as a threat. The purpose of common consent in our present culture is to sustain the Brethren, not to persuade them and not to persuade our fellow members.

[_consiglieri]

Thanks for the nice comment (bolded). As strange as it might sound, I have shown my wife many of your posts over the years and we have always found you to be one of the most insightful and brightest minds within the LDS community. We really appreciate this.

As for Dehlin, early on I enjoyed his podcasts and now I have this grudge against him because I feel like he is going for fame and pay. Along the way he seems to disregard the real pioneers that came before him such as yourself. The Kishkumens, Dr. Shades, and so many more were the real worker bees, not the Dehlin types. Dehlin got lucky being in the right place at the right time to capitalize on a movement that was already in play. Now the story has become about Dehlin and not the Church.

Thanks for clueing me in on your reasoning, LIDC. It really helps.

I can't speak for another person's motivations (sometimes not even for my own), but I do recall a few years back when John had a podcast in which he extolled some Church leaders that he thought blazed the trail for him.

I think there were three. One was Leonard Arrington, I'm pretty sure. Another was Edgar Lyons, I think. I am not sure who the third was. Maybe Eugene England?

(Just spent a lot of time trying to find it and couldn't. I remember it nonetheless.)

But I do think it important to consider this when trying to assess John's motivations.

All the Best!

--Consiglieri

[_Mayan Elephant]

http://mormonstories.org/responses-from-bishops-and-stake-presidents-about-public-support-of-ordain-women-and-same-sex-marriage/

Damn. The responses are not going the way we need them to go.

damn is right. it is you. the "we" is you and he.

[_Tavares Standfield]

damn is right. it is you. the "we" is you and he.

I don't even know what this means.

What is clear is that LDS Inc. has gone into overdrive feeding John Dehlin false stories in order to distort the facts and control the narrative.

[_Mayan Elephant]

I don't even know what this means.

What is clear is that LDS Inc. has gone into overdrive feeding John Dehlin false stories in order to distort the facts and control the narrative.

We only need 5 or 10 responses to obtain the information we need.

you and john are together on this, the spirit tells me so.