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Darth J,

Apologies. I had a momentary lapse there ... but I just got sick of the BS. Back to your regularly scheduled programming.

Did someone hack Tobin's account? The irony of his posts are truly shocking, even for Tobin standards.

Darth J wrote: ... This reduces "God" to a meaningless placeholder word. ...

Happens quite a lot round here.

Doing so seems to make people feel terribly, terribly profound.

DarthJ,
I agree with your implications that many theist ideas of God are dysfunctional.
The question of why God didn't help those suffering during the holocaust is still revelant today when almost 1,000,000,000 men, women and children are starving (according to World Health Org).
Why is it that God supposedly cares about someone finding their lost keys but is so apathetic about so many starving to death?
I know some TBMs who struggle with this.

How I understand God is a little like Leibniz explained perception as being the foundation of this universe. God is not some entity somewhere out there - but consciousness within all life. I believe we all have spiritual reception - signals to help others in our sphere of influence. This is often ignored and thereby contributes to suffering.

Regarding your comments about not understanding how I could not be either Atheist nor Theist - I refer you to look into polarized (black-or white) cognitive distortion and logical fallacy.
I find both Theist and Atheist herd mentalities lacking in integrity, so I've considered alternate possibilities of God/Objective Truth/Love.

Amore wrote:DarthJ,
I agree with your implications that many theist ideas of God are dysfunctional.
The question of why God didn't help those suffering during the holocaust is still revelant today when almost 1,000,000,000 men, women and children are starving (according to World Health Org).
Why is it that God supposedly cares about someone finding their lost keys but is so apathetic about so many starving to death?
I know some TBMs who struggle with this.

How I understand God is a little like Leibniz explained perception as being the foundation of this universe. God is not some entity somewhere out there - but consciousness within all life. I believe we all have spiritual reception - signals to help others in our sphere of influence. This is often ignored and thereby contributes to suffering.

Regarding your comments about not understanding how I could not be either Atheist nor Theist - I refer you to look into polarized (black-or white) cognitive distortion and logical fallacy.
I find both Theist and Atheist herd mentalities lacking in integrity, so I've considered alternate possibilities of God/Objective Truth/Love.

In other words, you've been positing nihilistic atheism as the only alternative to classical theism, but you don't really believe that, so your posts to this point have been disingenuous.

grindael wrote:

On July 1, 2014, Tobin wrote:Welcome to the reality that is grindael, the foremost asinine ignoramus on this forum (I put Themis up there in close contention). It really is pointless and worthless to discuss anything with him. You can tell him something a million times and he's just too pigheaded to acknowledge it or even grasp what you are telling him. And his ability to make mystifying connections and leaps of illogic is stunning. I really think he may be suffering from some form of mental illness or deficiency.

Oh how quickly we forget. A**hole.

Actually, this is just another example of what I've already noted about you in this thread. You take quotes out of context and use them without regard to misrepresent what is going on. In this case, you had repeatedly, stupidly, and rather dishonestly accused maklelan of believing something he was attributing to the development of the beliefs of ancient Israel.

Here is the actual quote I was responding to and thread.
http://www.mormondiscussions.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=30532&p=830858&hilit=foremost+asinine#p830858

maklelan wrote:

grindael wrote:No, you are hedging. You said that is how the Hebrew Religion DEVELOPED. You believe this. This can't be more clear. Keep hedging. You can run, but you can't hide. This is recited as what you believe are the facts:

I questioned your honesty for much of this, but now I honestly question your intelligence. Of course that's how I believe their religion developed. It's a diachronic model of the development of Israelite religion. It has nothing to do at all with what I personally believe about deity.

Tobin wrote:Welcome to the reality that is grindael, the foremost asinine ignoramus on this forum (I put Themis up there in close contention). It really is pointless and worthless to discuss anything with him. You can tell him something a million times and he's just too pigheaded to acknowledge it or even grasp what you are telling him. And his ability to make mystifying connections and leaps of illogic is stunning. I really think he may be suffering from some form of mental illness or deficiency.

I'll note that you FAILED to link this because it shows how dishonest you truly are. Also, I wasn't addressing you and makelan had already observed about you what I was simply echoing in his prior post and he certainly had good cause to say so. That is another reason why I have added you to ignore on this forum grindael. You simply have no scruples about what you say and are thoroughly untrustworthy. Everything you bring up is questionable because of your serious misbehavior and that is why I don't respect any of it.

Amore wrote:I find... Atheist herd mentalities lacking in integrity, so I've considered alternate possibilities of God/Objective Truth/Love.

I think that's a little unfair to Atheists since there isn't a prescribed doctrine in Atheism other than a lack of belief in deity, or in some cases an assertion that there is no deity based on lack of evidence (or the many contradictions found within various theologies).

I also think you do nihilism a disservice equating it with misery.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Existential_nihilism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moral_nihilism

If anything nihilism is the very thing most Mormons would say the war in Heaven was fought over. Freedom of choice. Freedom of thought. Freedom of Man to make something of himself, and there is no greater tribute to either a perceived Creator or man himself than the man who determines his own principles and tries to live faithfully to them. Nihilism doesn't have to lead to misery just as much as religious devotion doesn't have to lead to bliss. The notion is a philosophical non-starter.

V/R
Doc

Tobin wrote:
Actually, this is just another example of what I've already noted about you in this thread. You take quotes out of context and use them without regard to misrepresent what is going on. In this case, you had repeatedly, stupidly, and rather dishonestly accused maklelan of believing something he was attributing to the development of the beliefs of ancient Israel.

I'll note that you FAILED to link this because it shows how dishonest you truly are. Also, I wasn't addressing you and makelan had already observed about you what I was simply echoing in his prior post and he certainly had good cause to say so. That is another reason why I have added you to ignore on this forum grindael. You simply have no scruples about what you say and are thoroughly untrustworthy. Everything you bring up is questionable because of your serious misbehavior and that is why I don't respect any of it.

It is your opinion that I failed. So? What is that worth? Nothing. The quotes are there for anyone to see, they can go look them up and see exactly what I said and why I said it. http://www.mormondiscussions.com/phpBB3 ... 66#p830666 I asked Daniel if that was how he personally believed the Hebrew Religion developed and he said it was, then changed his story to claim that he believed that that is what the Biblical authors believed. It's all there in black and white.

You absolutely were speaking about me. I don't care who you were "addressing" (like this makes any kind of difference). You are still name calling and trying to justify your own misbehavior and lies and name calling. To say that you are a delusional hypocrite is really the truth, because that is what you are, and the above proves it.

grindael wrote:

Tobin wrote:
Actually, this is just another example of what I've already noted about you in this thread. You take quotes out of context and use them without regard to misrepresent what is going on. In this case, you had repeatedly, stupidly, and rather dishonestly accused maklelan of believing something he was attributing to the development of the beliefs of ancient Israel.

I'll note that you FAILED to link this because it shows how dishonest you truly are. Also, I wasn't addressing you and makelan had already observed about you what I was simply echoing in his prior post and he certainly had good cause to say so. That is another reason why I have added you to ignore on this forum grindael. You simply have no scruples about what you say and are thoroughly untrustworthy. Everything you bring up is questionable because of your serious misbehavior and that is why I don't respect any of it.

It is your opinion that I failed. So? What is that worth? Nothing. The quotes are there for anyone to see, they can go look them up and see exactly what I said and why I said it. You absolutely were speaking about me. I don't care who you were "addressing" (like this makes any kind of difference). You are still name calling and trying to justify your own misbehavior and lies and name calling. To say that you are a delusional hypocrite is really the truth, because that is what you are, and the above proves it.

Hilarious. If you don't think my opinion is worth anything, then why continue to respond?

Now, is what I (AND maklelan) observed about you in that thread true? I think it is pretty clear it is true GIVEN your own misbehavior in that thread and this. And as I've said, I'm sorry you take it personally. But if you wish to pretend you are a scholar (or historian) or whatever you attribute yourself as and want to be taken seriously someday, then I suggest you try some honesty and candor. When you distort and misrepresent what I and others have said, it ONLY reflects poorly on you.

Tobin wrote:
Hilarious. If you don't think my opinion is worth anything, then why continue to respond?

Now, is what I (AND maklelan) observed about you in that thread true? I think it is pretty clear it is true GIVEN your own misbehavior in that thread and this. Now, as I've said, I'm sorry you take it personally, but if you wish to pretend you are a scholar (or historian) or whatever you attribute yourself as and want to be taken seriously someday, then I suggest you try some honesty and candor. When you distort and misrepresent what I and others have said, it ONLY reflects poorly on you.

Yes you are hilarious. Who cares what you and Maklelan observed? I quoted him. It's all there in black and white. The only misbehavior was by you. You are a troll and a hypocrite. This is about as honest and frank as it gets. Read the quotes, that shows who is distorting what.