Holland talks about the essays and historical questions

[_Sammy Jankins]

If you haven't seen it. Fast forward to the 50:00 minute mark.

https://www.LDS.org/broadcasts/watch/evening-with-a-general-authority/2015/02?lang=eng&vid=4037636726001

He gets a little worked up about it.

I'll look for a transcript.

[_lostindc]

interesting talk, pretty sure every parent in the LDS church will be emailing the talk to their wayward children. in my opinion, he of course answered less than zero, in fact he disregarded all issues with the shelve it type of thinking.

[Guest]

You've heard these questions. They're not new. They first arose in the neighborhood of Palmyra, when the [several-months-before-his-fifteenth-birthday-aged] Joseph first reported his heavenly vision, and they continue in one form or another to the present day. [An unidentified anonymous person or persons] recently addressed a dozen or so of these issues in a series of essays, desiring to be both accurate and transparent[ly opaque] within the framework of faith. Not all gospel questions have answers yet, but they will, they'll come [when you are dead and can no longer hold us accountable].

In the meantime, I HAVE A [RHETORICAL QUESTION THAT I DON'T REALLY WANT TO HEAR ANSWERED BY A PERSON WHO ISN'T GOING TO ASSUME AS TRUE EVERYTHING THAT I'M ABOUT TO SAY]! WHAT CONCEIVABLE, HISTORICAL, DOCTRINAL, OR PROCEDURAL ISSUE that may arise among any group could EVER overshadow or negate one's consuming spiritual conviction regarding the father's merciful plan of salvation; his only begotton son's birth, mission, atonement, resurrection; the reality of the first vision; the restoration of the priesthood; the receipt of divine revelation, both personally and institutionally; the soul-shaping spirit and moving power of the Book of Mormon; the awe and majesty of the temple endowment; one's own personal experience with true miracles; and on and on and ON!

It is a mystery to me . . . talk about a question [that I'm disingenuously or obliviously dodging]! It is a mystery to me how those majestic eternal first-level truths, so central to the grandeur of the whole gospel message, can be set aside or be completely dismissed by some in favor of obsessing over second or third or fourth-level pieces of that whole [like the central question of the reliability of one's accepted epistemology].

Wow--it is tiring to transcribe it . . . and he just keeps going. Fortunately he's talking to a bunch of people who are already buying what he's selling, so there's that.

[_Chap]

WHAT CONCEIVABLE, HISTORICAL, DOCTRINAL, OR PROCEDURAL ISSUE that may arise among any group could EVER overshadow or negate ... the soul-shaping spirit and moving power of the Book of Mormon ...

Well, I'd say that it turning out to be fictional might be quite a strong negative.

Odd that he did not actually insist that the Book of Mormon is a true account of what actually happened to some real people in America: he just went on about it being "soul-shaping ... and moving".

Isn't that the kind of thing that people might perfectly well say about, for instance, The Brothers Karamazov?

Is ground being prepared here? Or are minefields being carefully stepped round?

[_DrW]

You've heard these questions. They're not new. They first arose in the neighborhood of Palmyra, when the [several-months-before-his-fifteenth-birthday-aged] Joseph first reported his heavenly vision, and they continue in one form or another to the present day. [An unidentified anonymous person or persons] recently addressed a dozen or so of these issues in a series of essays, desiring to be both accurate and transparent[ly opaque] within the framework of faith. Not all gospel questions have answers yet, but they will, they'll come [when you are dead and can no longer hold us accountable].

In the meantime, I HAVE A [RHETORICAL QUESTION THAT I DON'T REALLY WANT TO HEAR ANSWERED BY A PERSON WHO ISN'T GOING TO ASSUME AS TRUE EVERYTHING THAT I'M ABOUT TO SAY]! WHAT CONCEIVABLE, HISTORICAL, DOCTRINAL, OR PROCEDURAL ISSUE that may arise among any group could EVER overshadow or negate one's consuming spiritual conviction regarding the father's merciful plan of salvation; his only begotton son's birth, mission, atonement, resurrection; the reality of the first vision; the restoration of the priesthood; the receipt of divine revelation, both personally and institutionally; the soul-shaping spirit and moving power of the Book of Mormon; the awe and majesty of the temple endowment; one's own personal experience with true miracles; and on and on and ON!

It is a mystery to me . . . talk about a question [that I'm disingenuously or obliviously dodging]! It is a mystery to me how those majestic eternal first-level truths, so central to the grandeur of the whole gospel message, can be set aside or be completely dismissed by some in favor of obsessing over second or third or fourth-level pieces of that whole [like the central question of the reliability of one's accepted epistemology].

Wow--it is tiring to transcribe it . . . and he just keeps going. Fortunately he's talking to a bunch of people who are already buying what he's selling, so there's that.

Thank you for transcribing this.

(Ludwig and I greatly appreciate it.)

[Guest]

If you haven't seen it. Fast forward to the 50:00 minute mark.

https://www.LDS.org/broadcasts/watch/evening-with-a-general-authority/2015/02?lang=eng&vid=4037636726001

He gets a little worked up about it.

I'll look for a transcript.

It’s rare that one gets to be a witness of evolution actually taking place before our very eyes. But I believe that is exactly what we are seeing in this video clip. Pushed by outside forces beyond its control, by mounds of scientific evidence that undermines its truth claims, the church is changing the focus of how future Mormon’s will view the Book of Mormon. As scientific evidence continues to chop at the base of the Book of Mormon historicity claims, the church will direct its membership on the life giving fruit of the book…its transformative influences, its spirt and the feelings one receives while reading its pages. The Book of Mormon is undergoing an evolution…and what it evolves into will depend on how the church proceeds. But based on Hollands words…I think we have a pretty good idea of what how future Mormons will view the book.

[_DrW]

WHAT CONCEIVABLE, HISTORICAL, DOCTRINAL, OR PROCEDURAL ISSUE that may arise among any group could EVER overshadow or negate ... the soul-shaping spirit and moving power of the Book of Mormon ...

Well, I'd say that it turning out to be fictional might be quite a strong negative.

Odd that he did not actually insist that the Book of Mormon is a true account of what actually happened to some real people in America: he just went on about it being "soul-shaping ... and moving".

Isn't that the kind of thing that people might perfectly well say about, for instance, The Brothers Karamazov?

Is ground being prepared here? Or are minefields being carefully stepped round?

I would say that an attempt is made to accomplish the former, while doing the best he can with the latter.

However, by failing yet again to directly address any of the troubling issues, Holland is essentially making a back door admission that the Church has had, and continues to have, serious problems with the truth, and that its leaders and their minions are not above lying, denying, dodging, deflecting and obfuscating when the troubling questions arise. His premise seems to be that this can all be justified by what he wants to believe is the "higher good".

There are good reasons why the returns from a Google search on "Lying for the Lord" are so tightly (almost exclusively) associated with Mormons and Mormonism. And this is but one more example.

[_Fence Sitter]

WHAT CONCEIVABLE, HISTORICAL, DOCTRINAL, OR PROCEDURAL ISSUE that may arise among any group could EVER overshadow or negate ... the soul-shaping spirit and moving power of the Book of Mormon ..

If he actually practiced what he is preaching here, the Church would not be excommunicating people like Kate Kelly or Denver Snuffler who are firm believers in the Book of Mormon.

[_grindael]

I have a question,

If the "pillars" of your organization are based on faith promoting fables, then what does that say about your organization? As long as you feel good, everything's ok. Keep the good feelings going by ignoring the evidence that he palms off as being 3rd or 4th tier questions. Man he was fired up. That was worth the watch (from the 50m. mark). Thanks poster.

He also owned the Essays which was interesting, and told us that they were transparent (within the bounds of faith promoting material), another telling remark.

[_Mayan Elephant]

i love those Neapolitan Mastiffs, but that cherry eye is disturbing. the treatment is to remove the tear duct and sew the eye into place. not good.

i prefer to use the dogue du bordeaux for joffrey.