LDS Loopholes

[_I have a question]

There must be some sort of generic baptism for the dead. I think the vast majority of those that have ever lived on earth will remain totally unknown. The best genealogical research services in the world could only find a very small percentage of them. It seems unfair that only those with a name recorded in this life would qualify for the Celestial Kingdom.

In Mormon Theology, correcting the lack of names in physical records will take a large portion of the millennium.

How will that be done (no records)?

Good evening, I have a question.

Seeing as how we are pointing out the obvious flaws in the doctrinal premise for proxy ordinances....

Some time ago I was acting as the officiator at a session in the temple for a youth trip to do baptisms for the dead. Amongst the names done was one particular card for a deceased person called "Mary". There were some potential issues with this persons record. Firstly, the name "Mary" was the only information on the record card. No date of birth, no date of death, no parents, siblings, spouse etc. Nothing. Nada. Zilch. Just the one single word "Mary" There was no means to identify which particular Mary this was.

My question: Are there now a group of Marys in the afterlife squabbling over who's proxy baptism that was? If there is a means of correcting this in the afterlife, that would render the necessity of performing the symbolic gesture in this life null and void. At least in terms of the necessity for the dead person.

I have long maintained that temple work for the dead is not for the dead, it serves a purpose for the Church in terms of the living. The realization that so many names will have been missed, so many ordinances done incorrectly (wrong spellings, wrong dates, duplications etc) means that, if the doctrine is correct, there must needs be a method for actioning baptisms for dead people in some other post-life manner for the plan and purpose to be fulfilled. On that basis, that dead people can receive baptism in some other way, temple work is unnecessary as far as the dead person is concerned.

Also, one of the levers used to coerce members to do temple work is that these dead people are anxiously waiting for these ordinances to be done. If this life is the blinking of an eye eternally (as Mormon doctrine teaches) then they are hardly waiting anytime at all, right? And from an eternal perspective for that dead person, if it's done today or next month or next year is, eternally speaking, pretty much the exact same thing. So no rush.

Did I mention that the person "Mary" whose baptism was performed posthumously that evening was registered on a blue card (representing a male) and was therefore represented baptismly by a teenage boy? So how's that work out in the long run if that baptism supposedly counts and was necessary?

[Guest]

Yes, IHAQ, it has long been obvious to me that the proxy work done in Mormon temples for the dead is not really for the dead. It's real purpose is to reinforce the faith and the loyalty of the temple recommend holding members who attend the temples.

by the way, I am flabbergasted that they would have done proxy work for someone with as scanty identification available as for that Mary you told us about!

[_I have a question]

Yes, IHAQ, it has long been obvious to me that the proxy work done in Mormon temples for the dead is not really for the dead. It's real purpose is to reinforce the faith and the loyalty of the temple recommend holding members who attend the temples.

I think it's worse than that.
I think it's to ensure members have an emotional inducement to continue handing over their money.

[_Gunnar]

Yes, IHAQ, it has long been obvious to me that the proxy work done in Mormon temples for the dead is not really for the dead. It's real purpose is to reinforce the faith and the loyalty of the temple recommend holding members who attend the temples.

I think it's worse than that.
I think it's to ensure members have an emotional inducement to continue handing over their money.

Yes, of course! That too!

[_ludwigm]

Firstly, the name "Mary" was the only information on the record card. No date of birth, no date of death, no parents, siblings, spouse etc. Nothing. Nada. Zilch. Just the one single word "Mary" There was no means to identify which particular Mary this was.

In Bislama (bêche de mer), Mary is the word for any female.
Then, that baptism is valid for all females of Vanuatu Isles...


by the way

But toward him the girl had no heart of gratitude because she had no brain of understanding. She, who had been sold for a fat pig, considered her pitiful role in the world to be unchanged. Eatee she had been. Eatee she remained. Her destination merely had been changed, and this big fella white marster of the _Arangi_ would undoubtedly be her destination when she had sufficiently fattened. His designs on her had been transparent from the first, when he had tried to feed her up. And she had outwitted him by resolutely eating no more than would barely keep her alive.

As a result, she, who had lived in the bush all her days and never so much as set foot in a canoe, rocked and rolled unendingly over the broad ocean in a perpetual nightmare of fear. In the beche-de-mer that was current among the blacks of a thousand islands and ten thousand dialects, the _Arangi's_ procession of passengers assured her of her fate. "My word, you fella Mary," one would say to her, "short time little bit that big fella white marster kai-kai along you." Or, another: "Big fella white marster kai-kai along you, my word, belly belong him walk about too much."

[_Tator]

I conclude that all this saving the dead business shows that the Mormon God is impotent to save his own creation, the Mormon God's recordkeeping system sucks, the Mormon God is only interested in busy work for the saints to keep them paying, praying and obeying, the Mormon God likes temples that are like great and spacious buildings and are like idol worship to satisfy the Mormon God's ego, the Mormon God is not interested in feeding the hungry, healing the sick, etc. it is more important to the Mormon God to make money and build malls. Let's go shopping after we dunk a couple of anonymous Marys.

[_RockSlider]

Mary won't you please throw me a line?

[_Tator]

One toke over the line sweet Jesus
One toke over the line
Sittin' downtown in a railway station
One toke over the line

Awaitin' for the train that goes home, sweet Mary
Hopin' that the train is on time
Sittin' downtown in a railway station
One toke over the line

Whoooo do you love, I hope it's me
I've bin a changin', as you can plainly see
I felt the joy and I learned about the pain that my momma said
If I should choose to make a part of me, surely strike me dead
Now I'm one toke over the line sweet Jesus
One toke over the line
Sittin' downtown in a railway station
One toke over the line
I'm waitin' for the train that goes home sweet Mary
Hopin' that the train is on time
Sittin' downtown in a railway station
One toke over the line

I bin away a country mile,
Now I'm returnin' showin' off a smile
I met all the girls and loved myself a few
Ended by surprise like everything else I've been through
It opened up my eyes and now I'm
One toke over the line sweet Jesus
One toke over the line
Sittin' downtown in a railway station
Don't you just know I waitin' for the train that goes home sweet Mary
Hopin' that the train is on time
Sittin' downtown in a railway station
One toke over the line

Don't you just know I waitin' for the train that goes home sweet Mary
Hopin' that the train is on time
Sittin' downtown in a railway station
One toke over the line

I want to be
One toke over the line sweet Jesus
One toke over the line
Sittin' downtown in a railway station
One toke over the line
Don't you just know I waitin' for the train that goes home sweet Mary
Hopin' that the train is on time
Sittin' downtown in a railway station
One toke over the line
Sittin' downtown in a railway station
One toke over line
One toke, one toke over the line

[_Tator]

Loophole the first: an iced latte is a banned "hot drink," but a caffeinated coke heated in the microwave would be just fine, albeit nasty to the taste and very undesirable.

Loophole the second: decaffeinated coffee would be condemned by most hyper-Mormons as a violation of the Word of Wisdom, but a cup of hot Postum with Nodoze tablets dissolved into it wouldn't be, though the most hyper of hyperMormons might decry the "appearance of Evil."

The loophole around all this hot drink stuff is to call it all, soup.

[_I have a question]

Loophole the first: an iced latte is a banned "hot drink," but a caffeinated coke heated in the microwave would be just fine, albeit nasty to the taste and very undesirable.

Loophole the second: decaffeinated coffee would be condemned by most hyper-Mormons as a violation of the Word of Wisdom, but a cup of hot Postum with Nodoze tablets dissolved into it wouldn't be, though the most hyper of hyperMormons might decry the "appearance of Evil."

The loophole around all this hot drink stuff is to call it all, soup.

Is that coffee you're drinking Brother Tator?
Nope, it's caffeine soup.
Okay, here's your recommend.

Genius.