DiscussMormonism.com

I have a question wrote:So you're now saying...that the Church essays are, essentially, anti-Mormon.....

ldsfaqs wrote:No, just that they aren't as clear as I would like in this issue, but it's understandable why they aren't clear because the information is entirely unclear.

But you said:

ldsfaqs wrote:I also don't like how LDS scholarship has dropped the ball on the Blacks and the Priesthood issue, essentially accepting the anti-mormon narrative.

So, what is written in the essay "Race and the Priesthood" that you consider to be lds scholarship accepting the anti-mormon narrative?
(Please be specific)

ldsfaqs wrote:

I have a question wrote:So you're now saying...that the Church essays are, essentially, anti-Mormon.....

No, just that they aren't as clear as I would like in this issue, but it's understandable why they aren't clear because the information is entirely unclear.

malkie wrote:How sad it is that the church doesn't meet ldsfaqs' standard of accuracy and truth.

If the church leaders and the apologists just understood the unclear information as well as ldsfaqs does, they would be clearer on this issue, and then ldsfaqs would like what they said.

ldsfaqs is the pre-eminent authority on the subject of the Priesthood Ban.
It is astounding that the Church would flagrantly ignore such a valuable resource when addressing questions about it.

Jesse Pinkman wrote:Uh, no, he only had one LEGAL wife because any other marriages would not be considered LEGAL in any sense of the word.

As far as the rest of your post is concerned, I'll let others here tear into it.

Nope, he had only one "temporal" wife, the others were also Marriage Sealings, thus they also were wives, spiritual ones, not Polygamous ones.

huckelberry wrote:I am puzzled.
Ldsfaqs,
How is Joseph being sealed to women not marriage.? Why did Josephs followers practice polygamy if he did not? Why does dc132 clearly instruct polygamy? Why didn't Joseph practice polygamy when he states that God instructed him to do just that?

Polygamy means marriage to more than one person at a time. (according to English dictionaries) Are you engaged in speaking a special newspeak?

Why was I taught in Lds seminary that Joseph Smith practiced polygamy leading the way for many Mormon leaders to do the same until the manifesto stopped new polygamous marriages?

1. It was marriage, just not temporal marriages. They were spiritual sealings, not polygamous ones.
I don't know of any followers that practices "Polygamy" until Brigham Young.
Though, I've said there may have been the "start" of it prior to his death. We all knew it was coming.

2. Well, first the principle had to be understood before the practice, and second it seems because Emma forbid him from doing so, and so he honored his wife's wishes.

3. No, actually the full definition of Polygamy is actually having "wives".
If you're not living with, having sex with, doing other things with that imply's a relationship, can one actually be said to be practicing Polygamy?
Nope.
Thus, this is not some "newspeak", it's simply the facts. There are Marriage Sealings in the Church, and there are Polygamous Marriage Sealings in the Church. That's simply fact of church practices.

4. I thought all you anti-mormons weren't taught all these "hidden" things by the Church, and that you became disenfranchized when learning all the dirty secrets the church hid from you???? LOL, can't have it both ways.

But as to your question, not being as "clear" in defining things as can be or should be is exactly my point here.

Joseph should have just sealed himself to Heber instead of going after Heber's 14 year old daughter. Would have saved a lot of trouble, and misunderstanding.

Doctor Steuss wrote:Joseph should have just sealed himself to Heber instead of going after Heber's 14 year old daughter. Would have saved a lot of trouble, and misunderstanding.

But not served his obvious purposes.

I have a question wrote:So you're now saying...that the Church essays are, essentially, anti-Mormon.....

I have a question wrote:

ldsfaqs wrote:
No, just that they aren't as clear as I would like in this issue, but it's understandable why they aren't clear because the information is entirely unclear.

malkie wrote:How sad it is that the church doesn't meet ldsfaqs' standard of accuracy and truth.

If the church leaders and the apologists just understood the unclear information as well as ldsfaqs does, they would be clearer on this issue, and then ldsfaqs would like what they said.

ldsfaqs is the pre-eminent authority on the subject of the Priesthood Ban.
It is astounding that the Church would flagrantly ignore such a valuable resource when addressing questions about it.

Just goes to show that the GAs are not only not led by the spirit, but are also not very smart.

ldsfaqs wrote:


4. I thought all you anti-mormons weren't taught all these "hidden" things by the Church, and that you became disenfranchized when learning all the dirty secrets the church hid from you???? LOL, can't have it both ways.

I do not recall ever thinking polygamy was hidden. Everybody knows Joseph Smith married multiple women.I certainly do not think polygamy is a dirty secret. I grew up proud of our polygamous heritage. I remember learning some women were married for eternity only while some were wives for both time and eternity. I didn't sleep through seminary even if it was early morning.

huckelberry wrote:

ldsfaqs wrote:


4. I thought all you anti-mormons weren't taught all these "hidden" things by the Church, and that you became disenfranchized when learning all the dirty secrets the church hid from you???? LOL, can't have it both ways.

I do not recall ever thinking polygamy was hidden. Everybody knows Joseph Smith married multiple women.I certainly do not think polygamy is a dirty secret. I grew up proud of our polygamous heritage. I remember learning some women were married for eternity only while some were wives for both time and eternity. I didn't sleep through seminary even if it was early morning.

Huckleberry,

Throughout my upbringing in the Church I was taught that polygamy was instituted during the pioneer treks to simply facilitate the subsistence support for those women and children who had lost the male breadwinner. My significant other has been a member of the Church their whole life. Has gone through all the teaching programmes of the Church as both student and teacher, at both ward and stake level. It was a complete and unpleasant surprise for her to find out, two years ago, that Joseph was a polygamist.

Joseph Smith's polygamy has been systematically hidden for generations.