Did William Law try to kill Joesph Smith?

[_grindael]

Well, clearly it's a story recorded by someone (pretty detailed by the way), thus it's in the history.

As to the claim that Law would have been tried for attempted murder, well..... things worked differently in those days, and Joseph was forgiving.
I don't remember near anyone tried for anything of the things they did against Joseph, the tar and feathering, various assualts, various crimes against members of the church, etc.

So, that's not a good argument.

Just because something seems detailed doesn't make it so. There is no date for this "story". Nothing to allow anyone to verify it. It is simply a late "recollection" and an invented diary entry. EA made a great argument. => As for Joseph not trying anyone, Charles Foster pulled a pistol on Smith in May of 1844 and Smith immediately had him arrested and fined him for doing so.

Charles Foster drew a pistol towards me on the steps of my office. I ordered him to be arrested and the pistol taken from him. A struggle ensued in which Charles Foster, R[obert] D. Foster and Chaunc[e]y L. Higbee resisted and I ordered them to be arrested. They resisted and I Mayor ordered the High policemen to be called and his possey and went on to try A[ugustus]. Spencer. Fined him $100 bound for to keep the peace 6 months. (Scott H. Faulring, An American Prophet's Record, p.474)

[p.345] Robert D. Foster, Charles Foster and Chauncey L. Higbee were each fined $100. They immediately took an appeal to the Municipal Court. (Joseph Smith, History of the Church, Vol. 6, p.345)

If Law had done the same thing and pulled the trigger, Joseph would have had him arrested. The proof is right there ^^^^^^

[_Bret Ripley]

I wonder where Law got his gun? Percussive revolvers existed in 1844, but in Europe and as showpieces (proof of concept) for royalty. Americans took the idea in 1835 but did not develop a marketable product until 1856. The average American did not have access until then.

The Colt Paterson revolver hit the markets in 1837 and remained in production past 1840, If I recall correctly. By the mid 1840s, tens of thousands of primitive revolving pistols were in circulation, consisting of Colt Patersons, shoddy imitations thereof, various pepper box designs, and volley pistols.

Some of these contraptions worked pretty well, like the later production Colt Patersons and the higher-end pepper box pistols. Joseph was armed with a six-shot pepper box revolver in Carthage Jail.

I thought about the Colt Paterson -- if the author had that weapon in mind, presumably Law was either too drunk to notice that the hammer was falling on a nipple without a percussion cap (only one cylinder was loaded) or the cap failed on the first attempt. A cap failing was a frequent enough occurrence, and shouldn't have surprised an accomplished marksman. A multi-shot (maybe a flintlock?) pepper box would probably make more sense for the story.

[_Kishkumen]

To paraphrase a contemporary Mormon historian, I am reassured to know that William Law did not threaten to kill Joseph Smith. Well, I have known it since Don Bradley gave me the skinny on the authenticity of this journal years ago, but in any case....

[_The Erotic Apologist]

A multi-shot (maybe a flintlock?) pepper box would probably make more sense for the story.

I have two black powder rifles I shoot regularly, a flintlock long rifle (40" barrel) and a replica of a Pattern 1853 musket (percussion).

With a good flint, the long rifle is a joy to shoot--fast ignition and 20+ shots before the flint wears out. But not every flint works equally well, and a bad flint that won't spark can be a bit annoying.

The musket, on the other hand, has never I repeat never misfired. Not even once.

[_Sethbag]

I wonder where Law got his gun? Percussive revolvers existed in 1844, but in Europe and as showpieces (proof of concept) for royalty. Americans took the idea in 1835 but did not develop a marketable product until 1856. The average American did not have access until then.

As one counterexample, the Colt Patterson was produced starting in 1836. Whether the "average American" had access to it I don't know, but I don't think that's good evidence that Law couldn't have had one.

At any rate, I agree that the diary in question sounds as authentic as a $3 bill.

[_The Erotic Apologist]

He probably got it from the same place Cyrus Wheelock got the six-shot pepper box revolver that he gave to Joseph Smith in Carthage jail.

By 1844, there were tens of thousands revolving pistols in circulation. Some were Colt Patersons. Some were crude knock-offs of the Colt Paterson. A great many more were variations of the (in 1844) fifty-year-old pepper box concept. Repeating pistols and percussion caps were old news in 1844.

That being said, I don't believe the story of William Law trying to kill Joseph, either.

[_Bret Ripley]

A multi-shot (maybe a flintlock?) pepper box would probably make more sense for the story.

I have two black powder rifles I shoot regularly, a flintlock long rifle (40" barrel) and a replica of a Pattern 1853 musket (percussion).

With a good flint, the long rifle is a joy to shoot--fast ignition and 20+ shots before the flint wears out. But not every flint works equally well, and a bad flint that won't spark can be a bit annoying.

The musket, on the other hand, has never I repeat never misfired. Not even once.

That is awesome! I love black powder shooting, but haven't done it in years. I used to have a replica Colt Dragoon and still have a replica 1860 Colt Army up in the attic somewhere ...

[_ludwigm]

A multi-shot (maybe a flintlock?) pepper box would probably make more sense for the story.

I have two black powder rifles I shoot regularly, a flintlock long rifle (40" barrel) and a replica of a Pattern 1853 musket (percussion).

With a good flint, the long rifle is a joy to shoot--fast ignition and 20+ shots before the flint wears out. But not every flint works equally well, and a bad flint that won't spark can be a bit annoying.

The musket, on the other hand, has never I repeat never misfired. Not even once.

That is awesome! I love black powder shooting, but haven't done it in years. I used to have a replica Colt Dragoon and still have a replica 1860 Colt Army up in the attic somewhere ...

in the attic somewhere ???

Here, in the civilized world (ex-socialist and so on) we should store any weapons in strong-boxes.
Without a lockbox, my 6.35 Zbrojowka (a plaything, by the way) would be confiscated.

check it ... https://www.google.com/search?q=%226.35 ... 58&bih=647

.


Yes, I live on a different planet.
I am a Martian, You know.

[_Cinnamon Bear Head]

I wonder where Law got his gun? Percussive revolvers existed in 1844, but in Europe and as showpieces (proof of concept) for royalty. Americans took the idea in 1835 but did not develop a marketable product until 1856. The average American did not have access until then.

The Colt Paterson revolver hit the markets in 1837 and remained in production past 1840, If I recall correctly. By the mid 1840s, tens of thousands of primitive revolving pistols were in circulation, consisting of Colt Patersons, shoddy imitations thereof, various pepper box designs, and volley pistols.

Some of these contraptions worked pretty well, like the later production Colt Patersons and the higher-end pepper box pistols. Joseph was armed with a six-shot pepper box revolver in Carthage Jail.

Yes, Colt did have his, but I was limiting myself to six barreled revolvers. I was under the impression six barrels were a later development. I am not an expert.

[_Bret Ripley]

a replica 1860 Colt Army up in the attic somewhere ...

in the attic somewhere ???

Here, in the civilized world (ex-socialist and so on) we should store any weapons in strong-boxes.

I think that is a good policy, and it is one that I generally follow. However, the replica 1860 Colt in question is disassembled and not in firing condition -- the hammer-spring is broken and the nipples that house the caps need to be replaced (they become flattened by repeated hammer strikes, which results in caps not firing because the hammer no longer strikes them well). The percussion caps and black powder are locked away in a gun cabinet. Even the lead balls -- which without a working black powder firearm are relatively harmless unless perhaps you have a slingshot -- are locked away.

Yes, I live on a different planet.
I am a Martian, You know.

Yes, I regard it as one of your endearing qualities.