Uchtdorf and McConkie on Grace.

[_Ceeboo]

Let's start over....

Absolutely no!

Peace,
Ceeboo

[_I have a question]

Let's start over....

Absolutely no!

Peace,
Ceeboo

Okay.

[_RockSlider]

https://youtu.be/UGUOh7B13OM

My stand on Grace

nice mittens

[_Jersey Girl]

IHAQ,

I have a question. In your view, what is the "Good News" that you referenced in your post to Ceeboo?

[_RockSlider]

Ceeboo,

Original Sin?

[_Jersey Girl]

A. "Ceeboo was exhorting us to work towards being good"

I didn't see that represented anywhere on the thread. IHAQ, can you quote the portion of Ceeboo's post that demonstrates the above?

Bringing this question forward for your response, IHAQ.

[_Ceeboo]

Hello Rock!

Ceeboo,

Original Sin?

Original Sin (Often referred to as The Fall) has been - and continues to be - a highly debated topic amongst and between the various Christian sects we see today.

Although these disagreements are wide and although these disagreements can be - and often are - quite complex at the core - the basic understanding is as follows:

Original Sin describes the condition of sinfulness - lack of holiness - first human act of disobedience - to which human beings are hereditarily born. Stained.

I hope that was helpful.

Peace,
Your humble MDB Pastor,
Ceeboo

[_Jersey Girl]

IHAQ,

Though you might not notice it often, there is nothing I like better on a board like this than serious discussion and exchange of thought. That almost every thread on this board devolves into nonsensical mayhem is what discourages me from engaging for any length of time.

That said, I do take you seriously and I'm going to need you to go into your post and provide clarity so each of us can be sure of what has been said, it's intent and meaning. If you're willing to do that, I'm willing to continue with you.

I'm going to keep this full copy of your post in my replies to you, beginning with seeking clarity piece by little piece, and indicate the material I'm addressing using a colored text. Hope that makes some kind of sense. If you can go that route with me, I'm probably good for the duration.

Baby steps.
:-)

Let me respond by making my point somewhat larger.

It's interesting that you wish to so strongly identify with Jersey. Nobody really cares where anyone comes from, yes it's of interest, but nobody cares that you come from Jersey, or Hoboken, or Brooklyn or Harlem or Palmyra etc. but you do. You feel a strong need to identify that you are a 'Jersey Girl'.

I'd like you to copy and repost here, any evidence you see in my posts on this thread that indicates to you that I have a "strong need" to identify with Jersey.

I make that comment not to insult, but to demonstrate my wider point. Religions exist for a similar reason. Humans have an inbuilt sense that belonging to a group is better than being an individual. It dates back to those hunter gatherer days when humans had a better chance of survival if they grouped together. Hunting in teams and nurturing in extended familial groups exponentially increased an individual's chances of surviving and rearing young. You see exactly the same inbuilt sense at work in the animal kingdom today. You see it more clearly in humans in deprived areas where gangs are prevalent. Youngsters join gangs not for the sex and drugs and rock and roll. They join a gang for the protection it affords them. Safety in numbers is inherent in our species.

Religion is merely an example of that inbuilt sense. Religions are a brand, the name of a tribe or gang. People join a religion because they believe (possibly subconsciously) that it increases their chances for survival, albeit the time window for survival is now being projected beyond this observable existence because earthly survival is not really in the same jeopardy it once was when hunter gathering was at its rawest.

Religions are just man made constructs born out of an inbuilt survival instinct. That is why religious tenets lack consistency and reason and logic. That's why any discussion seeking clarification about any religions ambiguous principles or doctrines end up in frustration. They aren't ultimately what's important to the group. They are simply the construct used by the group to portray the justification for the groups existence.

Wow, that opened it up a tad!

[_RockSlider]

Original Sin (Often referred to as The Fall) has been - and continues to be - a highly debated topic amongst and between the various Christian sects we see today.

Are there other Christian sects that believe like Mormons on this?

i.e.
"We believe that men will be punished for their own sins, and not for Adam’s transgression."

This goes deeper in Mormon Doctrine to state there is no Original Sin ... babies come in totally clean and pure ... unstained.

this could be foundational to the conversation on grace ... i.e. one starting out good and getting better for example

[_Ceeboo]

Are there other Christian sects that believe like Mormons on this?

Not that I am aware of (although there might be?)

i.e.
"We believe that men will be punished for their own sins, and not for Adam’s transgression."

This goes deeper in Mormon Doctrine to state there is no Original Sin ... babies come in totally clean and pure ... unstained.

Yes, I am familiar with that LDS belief.

this could be foundational to the conversation on grace ... i.e. one starting out good and getting better for example

Without question - it is, in my opinion.