a little help?

[_Markk]

Folks,

How many folks here were or maybe still are TBM defenders of Mormonism is the early days of forum discussions?

How many TBM that have left, have left Mormonism alone...i.e. no scars etc. I have certainly left, and I am confortable with my doing so, but still have scars.

What is your current ideology or faith?

I appreciate your help.

http://forums.carm.org/vbb/showthread.p ... ait/page16

This is what is leading me to ask the question...start at post 151, and then 158...if you care you can follow, I understand if you don't. "Ocean Coast" is a new freind and TBM and have met a couple times for lunch.

[_Brackite]

Hi Markk,

From That Message Board:

-Alma 18: 10,12 (The Book of Mormon), supposedly 90 B.C.

So, horses and chariots, in the New World, in 90 B.C.?

Does this fit reality?

The latest example of pre-columbian horse in the New World is about 7,600 years ago. After that time, there are no examples of horses in the New World until the arrival of Columbus in 1493. This means there were no horses in the New World during the period that the Book of Mormon claims there were. It's not just that there are no horse remains from that time, there are no written records of them, no engravings, art, etc., of them from that time.

About Chariots, there are no examples of Chariots in the New World prior to Columbus.

So yet again, in a major way, we have no evidence of major components of the Book of Mormon story, where we would expect there to be some.

No horses, no chariots, so the above quotation from a very important story in the Book of Mormon, is false. This leads to the conclusion that the Book of Mormon is false.

Yes, that is all correct. There were not any horses and chariots in the New World around 90 B.C.E. However, the Horse and Book of Mormon problem can be solved with the Malay Peninsula Theory.

Animals for work. Book of Mormon peoples are described as having horses and asses, and the more useful elephants and cureloms and cumoms (Ether 9:18). Horses and asses and elephants are indigenous to the Orient. Mala also has water buffalo and other bovines (could these be cureloms and cumoms?) which are more useful than horses and asses in the Southeast Asian climate and for indigenous forms of agriculture.

Link: http://www.sunstonemagazine.com/pdf/131%2030-34.pdf

[_Brackite]

Okay, I found some of the Posts from Markk's "Ocean Coast" friend.
Here are a few of his Posts:

"Once again proof that our critics who never have read the Book of Mormon don't know what they are talking about."

"since when did anyone claim that evidence of pre-columbian horses PROVED the Book of Mormon correct? It simply proves the claim by anti-Mormons to be incorrect."

"to the contrary.. the existence of horses in precolumbian times, proves the argument by critics on that regard was wrong."

[_Brackite]

From Markk's Reply 6 Thread:

"As far as I know from scientific research, all paleontological evidence demonstrates that horses went extinct in the New World about 12,000 years ago."

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=30228

[_Markk]

From Markk's Reply 6 Thread:

"As far as I know from scientific research, all paleontological evidence demonstrates that horses went extinct in the New World about 12,000 years ago."

http://www.mormondiscussions.com/phpBB3 ... =1&t=30228

Actually my question had nothing to do with horses and the Book of Mormon...but what "we" go through emotionally after finding out everything we were taught growing up in the church is a lie, and even more specifically where our journey out has lead us.

[_bcspace]

How many folks here were or maybe still are TBM defenders of Mormonism is the early days of forum discussions?

I was a TBM defender before internet discussion forums existed. Still am TBM.

How many TBM that have left, have left Mormonism alone...i.e. no scars etc. I have certainly left, and I am confortable with my doing so, but still have scars.

No scars here.

[_ldsfaqs]

Actually according to professional scholars, the number and widespread usage of horses in the America's later on cannot be explained by the small number of horses that the Spanish brought over, as well as the various natives expertise usages of the horse at the time.

Further, there is plenty of different kinds of artwork found in the periods that clearly depict horses and similar during Book of Mormon times.

[_Quasimodo]

Actually according to professional scholars, the number and widespread usage of horses in the America's later on cannot be explained by the small number of horses that the Spanish brought over, as well as the various natives expertise usages of the horse at the time.

Further, there is plenty of different kinds of artwork found in the periods that clearly depict horses and similar during Book of Mormon times.

Which professional scholars are those?

As far as I know (my hobby is Native American petroglyphs), there are no depictions of horses in rock art dated before the arrival of the Spanish. Post'em if you got'em.

[_moksha]

So is this a request for help in flogging a dead tapir?

[_Quasimodo]

So is this a request for help in flogging a dead tapir?

Since his demise, my tapir has been completely uncooperative.