Book of Mormon not racist..... it's spiritual symbolism.

[_grindael]

It wasn't God who was a racist, it was the men who claimed to be his "oracles" that were.

[_The Erotic Apologist]

I'm not willing to call God a racist.

The fact that God made all the black Mormons sit in the back of the Priesthood Bus doesn't make Him a racist?

[_grindael]

I'm not willing to call God a racist.

The fact that God made all the black Mormons sit in the back of the Priesthood Bus doesn't make Him a racist?

And don't forget his "oracles" told the white women that the black women should sit in the back of the church if they had problems sitting next to them.

[_mentalgymnast]

...you're simply trying to muddy the waters...

Only in the sense that just as an irritant within a shell mollusk causes a reaction that results in a fine pearl, my hope is that as I see the messy 'tissue' surrounding the pearl...the visible results of the irritants... I am also able to discern the reactions...or the ways and means...by which the interactions between the human (the irritants(?)) and the divine can be seen. In both cases it IS a process, just like in the creation of a pearl...or a church and kingdom of God.

And it IS messy as one observes the process. One would expect as much.

As we observe the processes of 'culling/managing' the interactions between the Lamanites/Nephites in the Book of Mormon and as we consider the rather secretive closed culling and managing processes within a mussel/mollusk/clam, which are also somewhat indecipherable and incomprehensible from the outside looking in, we can see that yes, there is a certain amount of 'muddiness' and/or messiness that is part of the process. It's not clean and unadulterated. There are irritants involved. Physical agents...people...that are involved from beginning to end. But in each case, again, we have...at least from the point of view of those that recognize it to be so...a beautiful pearl and/or kingdom of God as the final result.

We see racism in the Book of Mormon. God (may) see(s) division meant to manage/cull the human populations. Refer to Jacob 5 in the Book of Mormon. It's been done over and over throughout human history. We can look at it as being purely the result of natural events...without God...or events that are macro (micro?) managed by an all knowing God.

Take your pick.

I suppose you can continue to call it racism if you want.

I'm really not trying to muddy the waters. But I admit they, the waters, are rather opaque at times. Sometimes translucent. Rarely transparent.

Regards,
MG

[_The Erotic Apologist]

And don't forget his "oracles" told the white women that the black women should sit in the back of the church if they had problems sitting next to them.

The only reason why a person of color would ever want to join the Mormon Church is because deep down inside he wants to be white.

[_sock puppet]

It wasn't God who was a racist, it was the men who claimed to be his "oracles" that were.

Is there a difference?

[_grindael]

Dear President Benson:

Through the General Board of the Relief Society, who reported to the Presiding Bishopric, and they to us, it comes to us that you have in the Capitol Ward in Washington two colored sisters who apparently are faithful members of the Church.

The report comes to us that prior to a meeting which was to be held between the Relief Societies of the Washington Ward and the Capitol Ward, Bishop Brossard of the Washington Ward called up the President of the Relief Society of the Capitol Ward and told her that these two colored sisters should not be permitted to attend because the President of the Capitol Ward Relief Society failed to carry out the request made of her by the Bishop of the other ward.

We can appreciate that the situation may present a problem in Washington, but President Clark recalls that in the Catholic churches in Washington at the time he lived there, colored and white communicants used the same church at the same time. He never entered the church to see how the matter was carried out, but he knew that the facts were as stated.

From this fact we are assuming that there is not in Washington any such feeling as exists in the South where the colored people are apparently not permitted by their white brethren and sisters to come into the meeting houses and worship with them. We feel that we cannot refuse baptism to a colored person who is otherwise worthy, and we feel that we cannot refuse to permit these people to come into our meeting houses and worship once we baptize them.

It seems to us that it ought to be possible to work this situation out without causing any feelings on the part of anybody. If the white sisters feel that they may not sit with them or near them, we feel very sure that if the colored sisters were discreetly approached, they would be happy to sit at one side in the rear or somewhere where they would not wound the sensibilities of the complaining sisters. We will rely upon your tact and discretion to work this out so as not to hurt the feelings on the part of anyone.

Of course, probably each one of the sisters who can afford it, has a colored maid in her house to do the work and to do the cooking for her, and it would seem that under these circumstances they should be willing to let them sit in Church and worship with them.

Faithfully your brethren,

[signed]

Heber J. Grant
J. Reuben Clark, Jr.
David O. McKay

(Source: Lester E. Bush, Jr., "Mormonism's Negro Doctrine," Dialogue, Vol. 8, No. 1 at 43 & n. 197 (Spring 1973)).

Nah, no racism here. Why didn't they suggest that the COMPLAINING sisters sit in the back since THEY had the problem? Oh yeah, they were WHITE.

[_The Erotic Apologist]

...you're simply trying to muddy the waters...

Only in the sense that just as an irritant within a shell mollusk causes a reaction that results in a fine pearl, my hope is that as I see the messy 'tissue' surrounding the pearl...the visible results of the irritants... I am also able to discern the reactions...or the ways and means...by which the interactions between the human (the irritants(?)) and the divine can be seen. In both cases it IS a process, just like in the creation of a pearl...or a church and kingdom of God.

And it IS messy as one observes the process. One would expect as much.

As we observe the processes of 'culling/managing' the interactions between the Lamanites/Nephites in the Book of Mormon and as we consider the rather secretive closed culling and managing processes within a mussel/mollusk/clam, which are also somewhat indecipherable and incomprehensible from the outside looking in, we can see that yes, there is a certain amount of 'muddiness' and/or messiness that is part of the process. It's not clean and unadulterated. There are irritants involved. Physical agents...people...that are involved from beginning to end. But in each case, again, we have...at least from the point of view of those that recognize it to be so...a beautiful pearl and/or kingdom of God as the final result.

We see racism in the Book of Mormon. God (may) see(s) division meant to manage/cull the human populations. Refer to Jacob 5 in the Book of Mormon. It's been done over and over throughout human history. We can look at it as being purely the result of natural events...without God...or events that are macro (micro?) managed by an all knowing God.

Take your pick.

I suppose you can continue to call it racism if you want.

I'm really not trying to muddy the waters. But I admit they, the waters, are rather opaque at times. Sometimes translucent. Rarely transparent.

Regards,
MG

That's mighty white of you to put it like that.

[Guest]

...you're simply trying to muddy the waters...

Only in the sense that just as an irritant within a shell mollusk causes a reaction that results in a fine pearl, my hope is that as I see the messy 'tissue' surrounding the pearl...the visible results of the irritants... I am also able to discern the reactions...or the ways and means...by which the interactions between the human (the irritants(?)) and the divine can be seen. In both cases it IS a process, just like in the creation of a pearl...or a church and kingdom of God.

And it IS messy as one observes the process. One would expect as much.

As we observe the processes of 'culling/managing' the interactions between the Lamanites/Nephites in the Book of Mormon and as we consider the rather secretive closed culling and managing processes within a mussel/mollusk/clam, which are also somewhat indecipherable and incomprehensible from the outside looking in, we can see that yes, there is a certain amount of 'muddiness' and/or messiness that is part of the process. It's not clean and unadulterated. There are irritants involved. Physical agents...people...that are involved from beginning to end. But in each case, again, we have...at least from the point of view of those that recognize it to be so...a beautiful pearl and/or kingdom of God as the final result.

We see racism in the Book of Mormon. God (may) see(s) division meant to manage/cull the human populations. Refer to Jacob 5 in the Book of Mormon. It's been done over and over throughout human history. We can look at it as being purely the result of natural events...without God...or events that are macro (micro?) managed by an all knowing God.

Take your pick.

I suppose you can continue to call it racism if you want.

I'm really not trying to muddy the waters. But I admit they, the waters, are rather opaque at times. Sometimes translucent. Rarely transparent.

Regards,
MG

So Mormon racism is like a pearl getting it's shine.

[Guest]

I'm not willing to call God a racist.

The fact that God made all the black Mormons sit in the back of the Priesthood Bus doesn't make Him a racist?

1. "Blacks" were not put in the back of the Priesthood bus, those (no matter the color, including whites!!!) of African Lineage were.
Blacks of various other lineages WERE given the Priesthood, from the Islands, parts of Central/South America, India, etc.

2. In the Old Testament ALL other Lineages other than Aarons were "banned" from the Priesthood.
Was God a "racist" then also?

3. Did it ever occur to any of you that the reason GOD put the priesthood ban was because of the racism toward the African through much of the world but especially the U.S.?

Do you think it's just a "coincidence" that the ban ended the EXACT time Racism toward the African ended?
I don't.

God thinks bigger than you people. And he doesn't do anything until man is ready for it. End of story.
Racism by the Church itself had ZERO to do with the ban. A few negative or ethno-centrist or wrong doctrinal theory's by some in the Church in history are LIGHT YEARS less than any of the ACTUAL racism in the country, by religions, by people, etc.

Historical Context is everything... pre-ban lifting
- JFK wouldn't have respected the church.
- A founder of the Black Panthers wouldn't have joined the church.
- The writer and director of "Roots" wouldn't have went to the Church and recieved an Honor from the Church for his work.

Anti-mormonism is re-writing history, into a false racist narrative one.

Racism in relation to blacks is if you're black.... Racists toward blacks don't care about a blacks lineage.
Was the Church racist against Whites when they were banned also due to their African lineage?