Peterson explains why no Book of Mormon archeology found, yet....

[_grindael]

You are forgetting one thing. All the white Nephites were destroyed. But not the Nephites who mixed their seed with the Lamanites. (Therefore "our" seed). Therefore the Book of Mormon easily could be speaking about those that were of mixed seed, but were still cursed with a dark skin.

The Nephites were all destroyed. It says so in the Book of Mormon.

[Guest]

Again, consider the very first section (chronologically) in the Doctrine and Covenants, seven years prior to the publication of the Book of Mormon, from the words of Moroni to Joseph:

"Behold, I will reveal unto you the Priesthood, by the hand of Elijah the prophet, before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord. And he shall plant in the hearts of the children the promises made to the fathers, and the hearts of the children shall turn to their fathers. If it were not so, the whole earth would be utterly wasted at his coming."

The very next section of the Doctrine and Covenants (chronologically) is the revelation that latter-day Nephites, Jacobites, Lamanites, etc, would soon receive a testimony of Christ, as promised, through the testimony of their fathers.

Based on this, to assert that the Lamanites is the only remnant is, in my opinion, taking latter-day scripture out of context.

You are taking it out of context. Here is what it says,

6. Nevertheless my work shall go forth, for, inasmuch as the knowledge of a Savior has come unto the world, through the testimony of the Jews, even so shall the knowledge of a Savior come unto my people; and to the Nephites, and the Jacobites, and the Josephites, and the Zoramites, through the testimony of their fathers; and this testimony [already given] shall come to the knowledge of the Lamanites, and the Lemuelites, and the Ishmaelites, who dwindled in unbelief because of the iniquity of their fathers, whom the Lord has suffered to destroy their brethren the Nephites, because of their iniquities and their abominations: and for this very purpose are these plates preserved which contain these records, that the promises of the Lord might be fulfilled, which he made to his people; and that the Lamanites might come to the knowledge of their fathers, and that they might know the promises of the Lord, and that they may believe the gospel and rely upon the merits of Jesus Christ, and be glorified through faith in his name; and that through their repentance they might be saved: Amen. beginning. Doctrine and Covenants (1835), Section 30:6

[_grindael]

"Remembering your seed" is through the record of the plates. It has nothing to do with physical seed. The Nephites were totally destroyed. That is exactly what the D&C tells us.

[_grindael]

And stop with the "Your Forefathers" crap. My ancestors are from Ireland, and I don't believe in fictitious races of people.

[_grindael]

Is limited to them? Certainly not.

Too bad Romney doesn't mention any, because they taught there weren't any.

I should like to address my remarks to you, our kinsmen of the isles of the sea and the Americas. Millions of you have blood relatively unmixed with gentile nations. Columbus called you `Indians,’ thinking he had reached the East Indies. Millions of you are descendants of Spaniards and Indians, and are termed mestizos, and are called after your countries, for instance: Mexicans in Mexico; Guatemalans in Guatemala; Chilianos in Chile. You Polynesians of the Pacific are called Samoan or Maori, Tahitian or Hawaiian, according to your islands. There are probably sixty million of you on the two continents and on the Pacific Islands, all related by blood ties. The Lord calls you Lamanites. Spencer W. Kimball

It has been the position of the Church that Polynesians are related to the American Indians as descendants of Father Lehi, having migrated to the Pacific from America . . . .Our belief in this regard is scriptural (see Alma 63:4-10). Howard Hunter

As Latter-day Saints we have always believed that the Polynesians are descendants of Lehi and blood relatives of the American Indians, despite the contrary theories of other men. Mark E. Peterson

With pride I tell those who come to my office that a Lamanite is a descendant of one Lehi who left Jerusalem some 600 years before Christ and with his family crossed the mighty deep and landed in America. And Lehi and his family became the ancestors of all of the Indian and Mestizo tribes in North and South and Central America and in the islands of the sea, for in the middle of their history there were those who left America in ships of their making and went to the islands of the sea…they are in nearly all the islands of the sea from Hawaii south to southern New Zealand…Today we have many Lamanite leaders in the Church. For example, in Tonga, where 20 percent of all the people in the islands belong to the Church, we have three large stakes. Two of them are presided over wholly by Lamanites and the other almost wholly by them. There are three stakes in Samoa and another is to be organized in those small Samoan islands. Four more stakes with Lamanite leaders!...
The term Lamanite includes all Indians and Indian mixtures, such as the Polynesians, the Guatemalans, the Peruvians, as well as the Sioux, the Apache, the Mohawk, the Navajo, and others. It is a large group of great people . . . . There are no blessings, of all the imaginable ones, to which you are not entitled–you, the Lamanites–when you are righteous. You are of royal blood, the children of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph, and Lehi. Spencer W. Kimball

They are the "authorities", you are not.

[_grindael]

Even B.H.Roberts agrees with me (another of those dang "authorities"):

I conclude, therefore, that this migration of Nephites at this time extended no further northward than southern parts of Mexico, say about the twenty-second degree north latitude; in other words, the Nephites were occupying the old seat of Jaredite empire and civilization, and the land of Moron which the Nephites called "desolate," not because of its barrenness--save for the absence of forests of timber--"but because of the greatness of the destruction of the people who had before inhabited the land;" that is, the Jaredites.

The next important event affecting the movement of population and the possession of the land north and south was a war between the Nephites and Lamanites, that began with the invasion of Nephite lands by the Lamanites in 35 B.C. Owing to dissensions among the Nephites, many of that people had deserted to the Lamanites. It is quite possible that this was owing to the resentment felt by the dissenting Nephites because of the class distinctions which arose on account of wealth and pride; and instead of the dissatisfied joining in the movement northward, as many did, some of them went southward, joined their fortunes with the barbarous Lamanites, and fomented the spirit of war against their brethren. In this war the Nephites were destined to meet with a new experience. Hitherto in their wars with the Lamanites, since uniting with the people of Zarahemla, at least, the Nephites had been able to hold their lands against the Lamanite invasion; and though they had lost here and there a battle, they were uniformly successful in their wars. In the war of 35-32 B.C., however, the Lamanites drove the Nephites from all their lands in the south continent. Even Zarahemla was taken, and the cities in the land Bountiful, extending, be it remembered, northward from the land of Zarahemla to the isthmus connecting the two continents. The Nephites were thrown wholly on the defensive. They concentrated their forces at the narrow neck of land; hastily fortified it, and by that means prevented the invasion of the north continent.q

In the year 32-31 B.C. the fortunes of war changed somewhat, and the invading hosts of Lamanites were forced our of the most northern cities of the Nephites in the land Bountiful and Zarahemla; but the city Zarahemla, so long the capital of the Nephite-Zarahemla nation, remained in possession of the Lamanites; nor could the Nephites further prevail by force of arms than to win back and hold about one-half of their possessions in the south. At this point still another event, important in Nephite history, occurred. The Chief Judge of the land, whose name was Nephi, resigned his office in order to join his younger brother, Lehi, in the work of preaching the gospel. Unrighteousness is assigned as the cause of Nephite failure in the war of 35-32 B.C.; wealth, love of luxury, pride, injustice to the poor, internal dissensions, manifold treasons, and civil strife are enumerated as among Nephite sins and afflictions. If unrighteousness was the cause of Nephite weakness and failure--and it was--then clearly clearly the logical thing to do was to bring the people to repentance, re-establish them in righteousness, and by these steps restore them to the favor of God. Evidently so reasoned these two priests and prophets of God, Nephi and Lehi; and to the achievement of this end they bent their energies. They were successful; but successful in a direction least to be expected, viz., successful in converting the Lamanites. Partially successful in converting the Nephites, in the northern cities of the southland, they went into the land of Zarahemla, still held by the Lamanites, and so far convinced the Lamanites of the error and wickedness of the traditions of their fathers that eight thousand were baptized in the land of Zarahemla and the regions round about. Thence the two prophets went further southward into the land of Nephi; and though they met with some persecutions, such was the marvelous display of God's power in their deliverance, that the greater part of the Lamanites were converted; and restored to the Nephites the cities and lands they had taken in the recent war. Many of the Lamanites themselves engaged in the work of the ministry, and preached to the Nephites both in Zarahemla and in the north continent. Nephi and Lehi also preached in the northland, but with no great success. Still peace prevailed; and for the first time since the separation of the Nephites from the Lamanites, in the first half of the sixth century B.C., there was unrestricted intercourse between the two peoples:

And behold, there was peace in all the land, insomuch that the Nephites did go into whatsoever part of the land they would, whether among the Nephites or the Lamanites. And it came to pass that the Lamanites did also go whithersoever they would, whether it were among the Lamanites or among the Nephites; and thus they did have free intercourse one with another, to buy and to sell, and to get gain, according to their desire. And it came to pass that they became exceeding rich, both the Lamanites and the Nephites; and they did have an exceeding plenty of gold, and of silver, and of all manner of precious metals, both in the land south and in the land north. Now the land south was called Lehi, and the land north was called Mulek,' which was after the son of Zedekiah; for the Lord did bring Mulek into the land north, and Lehi into the land south. And behold, there was all manner of gold in both these lands, and of silver, and of precious ore of every kind; and there were also curious workmen, who did work all kinds of ore and did refine it; and thus they did become rich. They did raise grain in abundance, both in the north and in the south; and they did flourish exceedingly, both in the north and in the south. And they did multiply and wax exceedingly strong in the land. And they did raise many flocks and herds, yea, many fatlings. Behold their women did toil and spin, and did make all manner of cloth, of fine-twined linen and cloth of every kind. to clothe their nakedness.

The next event which affected Nephite occupancy of the land north and south was one of their many robber wars. By the sixteenth year from the time the signp of the birth of Christq had been given (therefore 16 A. D.) wickedness had so far increased among the people of the western world, and there had been so many dissensions from those who once had favored law and order, that the robber bands which infested the country considered themselves so powerful that they called upon the Chief Judge of the land to abdicate government and accept the order of things that obtained in their societies. This demand led to a serious war between the supporters of the government on the one hand, and the outlaws on the other. The Nephite leaders gathered their people both from the north and the south into the central part of their country--into the land Bountiful, and the land Zarahemla; and the cities of these lands the Nephites and the Lamanites standing for law, order, and the maintenance of government, fortified and stocked with an abundance of provisions against the opening of the impending war. The war began in the year 18 A. D.,t and lasted for more than two years. In it the robber bands were not only defeated, but annihilated, by being destroyed in battle, executed under the provisions of the law, or by being compelled to enter into covenant to abandon their robberies and murders. This war, in some respects the most terrible in Nephite history, was followed by an era of prosperity. In the course of a few years the Nephites had moved back upon their lands whence they had been called by the exigencies of the recent war. "And it came to pass that there were many cities built anew, and there were many old cities repaired. And there were many highways cast up, and many roads made, which led from city to city, and from land to land."r

No sooner were the terrors of war removed, however, than the people who had been so marvelously delivered from their enemies lapsed again into unrighteousness.

For there were many merchants in the land, and also many lawyers, and many officers. And the people began to be distinguished by ranks, according to their riches and their chances for learning; yea, some were ignorant because of their poverty, and others did receive great learning because of their riches. Some were lifted up in pride, and others were exceedingly humble; some did return railing for railing, while others would receive railing and persecution, and all manner of afflictions, and would not turn and revile again, but were humble and penitent before God. And thus there became a great inequality in all the land, insomuch that the church began to be broken up; yea, insomuch that in the thirtieth year the church was broken up in all the land save it were among a few of the Lamanites who were converted unto the true faith; and they would not depart from it, for they were firm, and steadfast, and immovable, willing with all diligence to keep the commandments of the Lord. Now the cause of this iniquity of the people was this--satan had great power, unto the stirring up of the people to do all manner of iniquity, and to the puffing them up with pride, tempting them to seek for power, and authority, and riches, and the vain things of the world. * * Now they did not sin ignorantly, for they knew the will of God concerning them, for it had been taught unto them; therefore they did wilfully rebel against God.s

The people of the western world, in brief, had entered upon that final stage of their wickedness which was to terminate in those awful convulsions of nature that should make their lands desolate, and well-nigh destroy the inhabitants thereof. The government itself had become corrupt; so, too, had the priesthood, save a few faithful ones--men of God, who testified that the Messiah had come, and that the time of his passion and resurrection approached. These were secretly haled before the judges, and both priests and lawyers leagued against them for their destruction. When it was feared that the Chief Judge would not sign their death warrants--a thing needful under the Nephite law to make executions legal--they privily put them to death, and thus were guilty of judicial murders. An attempt to overthrow the commonwealth, now perpetuated through more than a hundred and twenty years, ended in anarchy; and thence to the establishment of a sort of tribal government, which maintained an uncertain peace by means of mutual fears rather than by any inherent strength in the system--if system, indeed, it could be called. Such were the conditions that obtained among the people of the western world when those mighty cataclysms occurred which destroyed so many Nephite cities, effaced so much of Nephite civilization, and so greatly changed in some places the physical character of the continents of the western hemisphere, of which the Book of Mormon account has been already given.

Shortly after these great cataclysms the Savior made his appearance among the Nephites and established his Church, which event was followed by a long period of righteousness and the loss of all race and party distinctions, such as "Nephite" and "Lamanite," etc.; and the people occupied the lands north and south without restraint according to their good pleasure. True, in the year 350, A. D., when wickedness had again made its appearance among the people, and old distinctions were revived, a treaty was made in which it was stipulated that those calling themselves Lamanites and Gadianton robbers would possess the south land. The treaty, however, was not long respected by the Lamanites, for at the end of ten years they violated it by attempting to invade the north and war was renewed. Back and forth surged the tide of armed conflict, but raged chiefly in what was known to the Nephites as the land of Desolation, the old seat of Jaredite empire and civilization. The Nephites at last having been driven from their southern strongholds in the north continent, proposed through their leader, Mormon,y that they be permitted to gather their people at Cumorah--the Ramah of the Jaredites--that they might trust their fate to the dreadful dreadful arbitrament of one great conflict. The request was granted; the hosts were gathered, the armies which fought under the Nephite name were destroyed, save such as were mingled with the Lamanites. Anarchy followed, and then savagery for ages claimed the western hemisphere as its own. B. H. Roberts, New Witnesses for God, Vol.2, Ch.12, p.202 - p.207

[_grindael]

Only one more reference to Nephite wars will be necessary—and this the war that destroyed their civilization and annihilated them as a people. This war is mentioned here because it will bring us once more face to face with that strange parallelism we have found so many times in Book of Mormon events. This time it will have to do with so important a matter as a war of extinction of two peoples, the Nephites and the Jaredites, on the self same battle site, with the same "hill" marking the axis of military movements. By the Nephites this "hill" was called the "Hill Cumorah," by the Jaredites the "Hill Ramah"; it was that same "hill," in which the Nephite records were deposited by Mormon and Moroni, and from which Joseph Smith obtained the Book of Mormon, therefore the "Mormon Hill," of today—since the coming forth of the Book of Mormon—near Palmyra, New York. For identification of the "Hill [p.278] Cumorah" with the "Hill Ramah" of the Jaredites, cf. Mormon 6:1-11; and Ether 15:11. Also in Oliver Cowdery's Letters on "Early Scenes and Incidents in Church History" there is an identification of Cumorah and Ramah.17 It will be remembered that Cowdery was associated with Joseph Smith in bringing forth the Book of Mormon, and hence would be capable of interpreting the statements of the book. This word on identification of Cumorah with Ramah, because certain students of Book of Mormon geography want to be rid of the necessity of both Jaredites and Nephites being extended so far northward as Cumorah. B.H. Roberts, Studies of the Book of Mormon, p.278

...In all this war of extinction, and destruction there is only one important variation, and that is that in the case of the Jaredites, the annihilation was complete for both sides down to the last man; in the case of the Nephites and Lamanites only the Nephites were wholly annihilated; the Lamanites, their opponents, survived but only in a state of anarchy leading ultimately to the barbarism and semi-barbarism in which they were found by the Europeans a thousand years afterward.

And now, I doubt not, at the conclusion of this review of the Nephite and Jaredite wars of extinction, some will be led to exclaim—and I will set it down for them—"Is all this sober history inspired written and true, representing things that actually happened? Or is it a wonder-tale of an immature mind, unconscious of what a test he is laying on human credulity when asking men to accept his narrative as solemn history?"[p.284]B.H. Roberts, Studies of the Book of Mormon, p.283

[_grindael]

They separated into two groups after they arrived here, and while they became numerous upon the face of the earth there was a large portion of them who did not serve the Lord, and eventually they became so wicked that the Nephites or fair-skinned people perished, being destroyed by the Red Man. They had builded great cities and wonderful things were accomplished by those who kept the commandments of the Lord, but those who would not obey him dwelt in idleness, or in a way that compelled them, if they would live, to take that which belonged to others. The Lord blessed those who honored him and kept his commandments as long as they were faithful, but eventually they were entirely destroyed, leaving their records buried in the earth, where they remained until they were delivered to the prophet Joseph Smith. History has repeated itself many times. Mormon "Prophet" George Albert Smith, Conference Report, April 1932, p.43

[Guest]

You are forgetting one thing....the Nephites who mixed their seed with the Lamanites....Therefore the Book of Mormon easily could be speaking about those that were of mixed seed....

Excellent point. I readily concede that Nephi's seed includes those who intermingled with the Lamanites.

...All the white Nephites were destroyed....

I respectfully disagree. The Hagoth account in Alma 63 suggests otherwise. As do a number of other passages. I believe with good reason that a significant number of Nephites survived.

First, I believe many Nephites survived because of the Abrahamic covenant. As part of that covenant, because of Abraham's faithfulness, Abraham was promised that his descendants would be as the sands of the sea, and that all nations would be blessed by his seed. Abraham's grandson Jacob received a similar promise. In such a context, as my brother once pointed out, it would be odd that a mere handful of Nephi's people survived, considering how faithful Nephi was.

Nephites were led away to preserve them from the destruction that was to become their brethren. Nephi's brother Jacob said, "For behold, the Lord God has led away from time to time from the house of Israel, according to his will and pleasure..." That was a pattern of God leading away people of Israel from time to time that was clear with the ten Northern tribes that were led away over a century before Lehi's departure from Jerusalem. It was true of the Mulekites. And of the Nephites. I believe it was also the pattern during the Nephite exodus under Hagoth, several decades before Christ, described briefly in Alma 63.
https://www.lds.org/scriptures/Book of Mormon/alm ... lang=eng#4

In the context of leading groups of people away for their own preservation, Jacob chapter 5 in the Book of Mormon provides an allegory about an olive tree which illustrates the scattering and gathering of the people of Israel. Branches, representing groups of people, are grafted back and forth, from different locations, and are eventually restored to their original place. The point is migrations, branches being grafted back and forth, over centuries of time.

In that same context, in 2 Nephi 10, after citing passages from Isaiah about the scattering and gathering of Israel, the same Jacob says: "And now I, Jacob, speak unto you again, my beloved brethren, concerning this righteous branch of which I have spoken. For behold, the promises which we have obtained are promises unto us according to the flesh; wherefore, as it has been shown unto me that many of our children shall perish in the flesh because of unbelief, nevertheless, God will be merciful unto many; and our children shall be restored, that they may come to that which will give them the true knowledge of their Redeemer. But behold, thus saith the Lord God: When the day cometh that they shall believe in me, that I am Christ, then have I covenanted with their fathers that they shall be restored in the flesh, upon the earth, unto the lands of their inheritance. And it shall come to pass that they shall be gathered in from their long dispersion, from the isles of the sea, and from the four parts of the earth; and the nations of the Gentiles shall be great in the eyes of me, saith God, in carrying them forth to the lands of their inheritance. Yea, the kings of the Gentiles shall be nursing fathers unto them, and their queens shall become nursing mothers; wherefore, the promises of the Lord are great unto the Gentiles, for he hath spoken it, and who can dispute? But behold, this land, said God, shall be a land of thine inheritance, and the Gentiles shall be blessed upon the land."

Certainly doesn't sound to me like all the Nephites (white or otherwise) were destroyed, if we take Jacob's word for it. Same goes for D&C 3. https://www.lds.org/scriptures/dc-testa ... ang=eng#16

The Nephites were all destroyed. It says so in the Book of Mormon.

Well, many were destroyed. The Book of Mormon even uses the word "extinct," but that only refers to the Nephites who stayed in the Americas. Elsewhere, the Book of Mormon also attests that "many" of their seed would be spared in other corners of the world. Both are true, if you consider the Nephite colonists who left long before their American civilization was eventually destroyed, and if you give equal weight to what the D&C and the Book of Mormon actually promised.

Why cling only to the part of the Nephite record that supports a supposed bigoted, 19th-century intent behind 2 Nephi 30? Both the D&C and the Book of Mormon attest that Nephites survived, and that they would eventually receive a testimony of Christ, a broad affirmation that likely speaks, in part, to your own heritage. Look in the mirror. You are likely part Nephite.

I don't blame you in the least for doubting the Book of Mormon. But in addition to being true, it is likely a record of some of your own ancestors. For many, even though they are not aware of it, it is a family history that attests to the fact that Christ lives, and that he cares for and blesses his covenant people, and those who are willing to become his covenant people. I appreciate you hearing me out, and hope you and others give this further thought.

[_hagoth7]

The remnant of the house of Israel includes the Lamanites? Certainly. Is limited to them? Certainly not.

Too bad Romney doesn't mention any [Nephites], because they taught there weren't any.

Romney simply quoted Enos (without any further commentary about the Nephites). And Enos tells only one part of the story. As does Alma. As such, their testimony is incomplete. Consider the rest of the Nephite testimony, for example from two of the founding brothers of the Nephite people: Jacob and Nephi, who promised that Nephites would be spared, would be scattered [throughout the world], and would then be gathered back to their land of promise.

...Mark E. Peterson

OK. And where does he attest in that quote that Nephites no longer exist? Nowhere.

...Spencer W. Kimball

OK. And where does he attest in that quote that Nephites no longer exist? Nowhere.

They are the "authorities", you are not.

I have made no claim to be an authority. But your appeal to authorities listed in that post doesn't demonstrate what you think it might. The Nephites themselves are key authorities of their own prophetic history, and attest to their subsequent migrations and survival. I suggest giving equal weight to what the founding Nephite brothers Jacob, Nephi, and Joseph were all promised in order to get the full story.