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I have heard a different interpretation on this Master Mahan business. Let me start with some hearsay. I know a fellow who has served in a stake presidency. As you may know, general authorities come around sometimes for stake conference. Apparently, on one such occasion, a general authority, (I don't recall which) had a meeting with the stake presidency and opened the scriptures unto them:

Moses 5:49-51 wrote:49 For Lamech having entered into a covenant with Satan, after the manner of Cain, wherein he became Master Mahan, master of that great secret which was administered unto Cain by Satan; and Irad, the son of Enoch, having known their secret, began to reveal it unto the sons of Adam;
50 Wherefore Lamech, being angry, slew him, not like unto Cain, his brother Abel, for the sake of getting gain, but he slew him for the oath’s sake.
51 For, from the days of Cain, there was a secret combination, and their works were in the dark, and they knew every man his brother.

Per my acquaintance, per this general authority, what is this great secret administered to Cain by Satan? How do you become Master Mahan? It lies in the meaning of the word "know." At the end of verse 51: "and they knew every man his brother." Yes, "know" the biblical kind of "know." This scripture is actually talking about Satan introducing homosexuality to the sons of man...literally.

I want to just laugh this one off as more Mormon silliness, but this is pretty messed up. Anyway sorry for the derail.

Finn the human wrote:I have heard a different interpretation on this Master Mahan business. Let me start with some hearsay. I know a fellow who has served in a stake presidency. As you may know, general authorities come around sometimes for stake conference. Apparently, on one such occasion, a general authority, (I don't recall which) had a meeting with the stake presidency and opened the scriptures unto them:

Moses 5:49-51 wrote:49 For Lamech having entered into a covenant with Satan, after the manner of Cain, wherein he became Master Mahan, master of that great secret which was administered unto Cain by Satan; and Irad, the son of Enoch, having known their secret, began to reveal it unto the sons of Adam;
50 Wherefore Lamech, being angry, slew him, not like unto Cain, his brother Abel, for the sake of getting gain, but he slew him for the oath’s sake.
51 For, from the days of Cain, there was a secret combination, and their works were in the dark, and they knew every man his brother.

Per my acquaintance, per this general authority, what is this great secret administered to Cain by Satan? How do you become Master Mahan? It lies in the meaning of the word "know." At the end of verse 51: "and they knew every man his brother." Yes, "know" the biblical kind of "know." This scripture is actually talking about Satan introducing homosexuality to the sons of man...literally.

I want to just laugh this one off as more Mormon silliness, but this is pretty messed up. Anyway sorry for the derail.

I have to agree with you, Finn the human. That is very messed up. I would chalk it up to more of the usual screwy attempt on the part of fearful Christians to lend bogus legitimacy to their homophobia. You get the same thing with the story of Sodom in Genesis. I don't think there is any reason to believe this folkloric interpretation of Moses.

All this is talking about is the counterfeit mysteries, which build a secret combination out of public sight and provide members a method (signs and tokens) whereby they may recognize each other, even if they have never met personally.

Metaphorically speaking, the simple fact is that there will always be counterfeit mysteries that play on the vanity of people who crave gratification of the ego and the id. Recognition, titles, power, wealth, and so forth. Such are the people who accepted Satan's oath in Moses, and such are the Cainites today. And, just to be perfectly clear, I am not talking about strange hocus pocus. I am simply referring to those people who place their own appetites before the welfare of others to an extreme. That is Satan's "great secret." By taking shortcuts, you can really get what you want personally. Unfortunately, you screw over everyone else at the same time.

So, the Cainites are quite pervasive in the world today. They are not a race. Indeed, we repudiate race theory and the idea of bloodlines or curses manifest in skin color. The Cainites of today are highly respected people. They lead churches, corporations, governments, banks, and the like. No one has literally to make a pact with the "little red chappie" in order to be one. To an extent, everyone who sacrifices the fundamental needs of others for their own gain is a Cainite. The true Mahanites realize that ultimately we all lose when we individually forget the well being of others.

So, no, there is no moronic hysteria about gay sex in the Book of Moses. But, you have reminded me that I need to explain why Master Mahan is no longer associated with the priesthood. It is because the name continued to be associated with the false order Satan instituted with Cain and Lamech. From the time of Abraham, the holy order was known as the order of Melchizedek after the righteous priest-king of Salem, to whom Abraham paid a tithe.

This thread is literally tying the pieces together for me. Please refer to an account in Ether 8, just prior to their land being cursed with serpents:

Ether8:

14 And it came to pass that they all sware unto him, by the God of heaven, and also by the heavens, and also by the earth, and by their heads, that whoso should vary from the assistance which Akish desired should lose his head; and whoso should divulge whatsoever thing Akish made known unto them, the same should lose his life.

15 And it came to pass that thus they did agree with Akish. And Akish did administer unto them the oaths which were given by them of old who also sought power, which had been handed down even from Cain, who was a murderer from the beginning.

How did the Jaredites get the secret from Cain? I would like to propose an idea that the secret was passed via the Phaistos Disk. It is becoming quite clear to me that the Jaredites settled on Crete and began trading goods with the Egyptians. Looking at the mhn disc and comparing it to phaistos disc, I can see how the Egyptians might have encoded it for the Jaredites. I would show you a comparison but Shades banned my image rights due to my refusal to stop showing classical bums and a few stray nipples portrayed in artwork. Maybe someone can show those for me?

zeezrom wrote:This thread is literally tying the pieces together for me. Please refer to an account in Ether 8, just prior to their land being cursed with serpents:

Ether8:

14 And it came to pass that they all sware unto him, by the God of heaven, and also by the heavens, and also by the earth, and by their heads, that whoso should vary from the assistance which Akish desired should lose his head; and whoso should divulge whatsoever thing Akish made known unto them, the same should lose his life.

15 And it came to pass that thus they did agree with Akish. And Akish did administer unto them the oaths which were given by them of old who also sought power, which had been handed down even from Cain, who was a murderer from the beginning.

How did the Jaredites get the secret from Cain? I would like to propose an idea that the secret was passed via the Phaistos Disk. It is becoming quite clear to me that the Jaredites settled on Crete and began trading goods with the Egyptians. Looking at the mhn disc and comparing it to phaistos disc, I can see how the Egyptians might have encoded it for the Jaredites. I would show you a comparison but Shades banned my image rights due to my refusal to stop showing classical bums and a few stray nipples portrayed in artwork. Maybe someone can show those for me?

This is remarkable stuff, zeezrom. You are right to see that ultimately it all ties together quite well. I am not sure how the particulars of all of the historical connections work, but I would agree with you regarding the Phaistos disc, which seems to be a Cretan document related to the mysteries of Mehen. The ties between Minoan Crete and Egypt were very strong.

You noticed the similarity between the coiled serpent discs in both traditions:





I was particularly struck by the fact that the flower on the serpent's head on the Phaistos disc is a unique symbol on that side of the disc. It suggests to me the possibility that the flower represents a kind of sun disc to stand in for Ra/Elohim. I would be that, if the Phaistos disc were deciphered, people would find that it is shorthand for an initiatory drama. In other words, it helped those priests running the mysteries to recall the entirety of the initiation process. Having said that, it could be the case that there are other flowers, now that I look more closely. That one just stands out because it is so well executed and right on the serpent's head.

Reverend,

This is one of most fascinating threads I've read in a long time.

Thanks!

Sent from my iPhone 6 while on the stand in Sacrament Meeting, and looking out into the congregation.

Everybody Wang Chung wrote:Reverend,

This is one of most fascinating threads I've read in a long time.

Thanks!

Sent from my iPhone 6 while on the stand in Sacrament Meeting, and looking out into the congregation.

Thank you, Everybody Wang Chung. I am glad I could provide you a little extra spiritual nourishment during your Sabbath observances. Remember that Sunday is the day of the sun, whose god is Ra.

Looks like a sweet mix of Jung, jazz and weed, Reverend. Have you been celebrating graduation?

Kishkumen wrote:That is very messed up. I would chalk it up to more of the usual screwy attempt on the part of fearful Christians to lend bogus legitimacy to their homophobia. You get the same thing with the story of Sodom in Genesis. I don't think there is any reason to believe this folkloric interpretation of Moses.

The interpretation of the Mormon 'Moses' text does seem very far-fetched.

But Sodom?

Genesis 19:

1. And there came two angels to Sodom at even; and Lot sat in the gate of Sodom: and Lot seeing them rose up to meet them; and he bowed himself with his face toward the ground;

2 And he said, Behold now, my lords, turn in, I pray you, into your servant's house, and tarry all night, and wash your feet, and ye shall rise up early, and go on your ways. And they said, Nay; but we will abide in the street all night.

3 And he pressed upon them greatly; and they turned in unto him, and entered into his house; and he made them a feast, and did bake unleavened bread, and they did eat.

4 But before they lay down, the men of the city, even the men of Sodom, compassed the house round, both old and young, all the people from every quarter:

5 And they called unto Lot, and said unto him, Where are the men which came in to thee this night? bring them out unto us, that we may know them.

6 And Lot went out at the door unto them, and shut the door after him,

7 And said, I pray you, brethren, do not so wickedly.

8 Behold now, I have two daughters which have not known man; let me, I pray you, bring them out unto you, and do ye to them as is good in your eyes: only unto these men do nothing; for therefore came they under the shadow of my roof.

It is quite clear from the fact that Lot offers his daughters as a substitute for bringing out his guests that the men of the city intend to rape the visiting agents of Yahweh who are in Lot's house.

Of course the writer of the story was probably well enough aware of the fact that the wish to perpetrate such an act is not indicative that the men of Sodom were 'gay' in the modern sense of the word, merely that they regarded penetrative sex as an act of power that could be inflicted on either gender.

But homophobic people might find that distinction way too subtle for them.

Maksutov wrote:Looks like a sweet mix of Jung, jazz and weed, Reverend. Have you been celebrating graduation?

Thanks for the compliment, Maksutov. But, let's not get carried away here. If weed had been involved, this would actually be good!

Kishkumen wrote:

Maksutov wrote:Looks like a sweet mix of Jung, jazz and weed, Reverend. Have you been celebrating graduation?

Thanks for the compliment, Maksutov. But, let's not get carried away here. If weed had been involved, this would actually be good!

It's interesting to see how it's possible to construct compelling narratives tying together so many elements. Bit of a meta-commentary on historiography, as well as an exercise in creative mythmaking. Tolkien would have appreciated it.