I have a question wrote:I don't think the historical Book of Mormon is under siege....I think it's dead.
DarkHelmet wrote:It was never really alive to begin with. It's been a bad joke from the beginning.
Maksutov wrote:It's another in a long line of apocrypha. There are people out there channeling or fabricating new ones right now. They'll be foisted on a future generation. Must serve some purpose. More data needed.
or fabricating? OR fabricating? OR?
There is no such thing as channeling. Channeling of who, what... gods? aliens? long dead people? never existed people?
It IS fabricating by default.
- Whenever a poet or preacher, chief or wizard spouts gibberish, the human race spends centuries deciphering the message. - Umberto Eco - To assert that the earth revolves around the sun is as erroneous as to claim that Jesus was not born of a virgin. - Cardinal Bellarmine at the trial of Galilei
Thanks for posting this Kish, I have spent way too much time procrastinating over at Phillip Jenkins blog now. The comments sections are just as interesting as his posts.
Hopefully, the apologists are thrilled that the Book of Mormon has been addressed by a credentialed historian. They usually complain of being ignored by academics - how many times have we heard that if only non-Mormon academics would take the time to engage the book, they would eventually rally in support of it. Dr Jenkins is even following up references apologists are providing in the comments and returning to demolish them. The blog is turning into a wonderful resource for people wanting to evaluate the strength of Mormon apologetics. I now have a great place to send my relatives who complain that the Book of Mormon is not taken seriously as history only because academics won't read it (and relatives who took Holland's Safety for the Soul message for gospel).
This sort of reminds me of the member who tuned into David Michael's "My Book of Mormon" podcast so that he could listen as David read the book, gained a testimony of it, and inevitably converted. The poor bloke was utterly shaken after a few episodes, and deconverted by Mosiah (world-view shattered - Michael's has now teamed up with Whitefields to raise funds for people in faith transitions).
I have a question wrote:I don't think the historical Book of Mormon is under siege....I think it's dead.
It was never really alive to begin with. It's been a bad joke from the beginning.
Maksutov wrote: It's another in a long line of apocrypha. There are people out there channeling or fabricating new ones right now. They'll be foisted on a future generation. Must serve some purpose. More data needed.
Please. This is a PG-13 forum. Don't talk about "channeling or fabricating". Use more polite terms such as "sourcing pseudepigrapha".
Zadok: I did not have a faith crisis. I discovered that the Church was having a truth crisis. Maksutov: That's the problem with this supernatural stuff, it doesn't really solve anything. It's a placeholder for ignorance.
Science and historical understanding of the world is advancing and triangulating in a way that the Book of Mormon will be proven either true or false within X amount of years. What is X? 10 years, 20 years, 50 years? It's coming. Right now it doesn't look so good for the Book of Mormon.
robuchan wrote:Science and historical understanding of the world is advancing and triangulating in a way that the Book of Mormon will be proven either true or false within X amount of years. What is X? 10 years, 20 years, 50 years? It's coming. Right now it doesn't look so good for the Book of Mormon.
It is just safer to assume it is fiction. If one day we make contact with advanced beings and they own up to this, then we can we revisit the issue. But that may not happen for a very long time (100's of thousand to millions of years) if we survive that long.
Last edited by Guest on Wed Jun 17, 2015 10:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"You lack vision, but I see a place where people get on and off the freeway. On and off, off and on all day, all night.... Tire salons, automobile dealerships and wonderful, wonderful billboards reaching as far as the eye can see. My God, it'll be beautiful." -- Judge Doom
robuchan wrote:Science and historical understanding of the world is advancing and triangulating in a way that the Book of Mormon will be proven either true or false within X amount of years. What is X? 10 years, 20 years, 50 years? It's coming. Right now it doesn't look so good for the Book of Mormon.
It is just safer to assume it is fiction. If one day we make contact with advanced beings and the own up to this, then we can we revisit the issue. But that may not happen for a very long time (100's of thousand to millions of years) if we survive that long.
There is no 'if'. You've already made contact with these advanced beings. Or rather, one of them has made contact with you. So? What did he/she/it have to say on the matter?
“When we are confronted with evidence that challenges our deeply held beliefs we are more likely to reframe the evidence than we are to alter our beliefs. We simply invent new reasons, new justifications, new explanations. Sometimes we ignore the evidence altogether.” (Mathew Syed 'Black Box Thinking')
I believe the advanced being was more interested in cockblocking Tobin. You know. Because that's the priority for them.
In the face of madness, rationality has no power - Xiao Wang, US historiographer, 2287 AD.
Every record...falsified, every book rewritten...every statue...has been renamed or torn down, every date...altered...the process is continuing...minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Ideology is always right.
I have a question wrote:I don't think the historical Book of Mormon is under siege....I think it's dead.
DarkHelmet wrote:It was never really alive to begin with. It's been a bad joke from the beginning.
Maksutov wrote:It's another in a long line of apocrypha. There are people out there channeling or fabricating new ones right now. They'll be foisted on a future generation. Must serve some purpose. More data needed.
Chap wrote:Please. This is a PG-13 forum. Don't talk about "channeling or fabricating". Use more polite terms such as "sourcing pseudepigrapha".
Hehehe.
No proper smilie found...
- Whenever a poet or preacher, chief or wizard spouts gibberish, the human race spends centuries deciphering the message. - Umberto Eco - To assert that the earth revolves around the sun is as erroneous as to claim that Jesus was not born of a virgin. - Cardinal Bellarmine at the trial of Galilei
