Egyptian in America?

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_moksha
_Emeritus
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Re: Egyptian in America?

Post by _moksha »

post on wrong thread - nevermind.
Cry Heaven and let loose the Penguins of Peace
_Kishkumen
_Emeritus
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Re: Egyptian in America?

Post by _Kishkumen »

bcuzbcuz wrote:I don't know enough about your posts to know if your writings are serious, in jest, or just plain BS.

But going from the symbols of the MicMac language representing the ideas of the Lord's prayer is total crap. To provide any claims worth their salt you must first show that the MicMac people had concepts of a father in heaven, of sin, daily bread, trespasses, evil, etc, etc.

I have lived amongst three different tribes on the west coast of Canada and the concept of sin came from the Catholic church. There was no such concept before the "holy fathers" started preaching about it.

Similarily, just a concept like counting things, attaching a number value to things, didn't exist prior to European priests and traders. One tribe elder explained it in the following manner. "You Europeans do stupid things like trying to count the stars. What a waste of energy. You count money, you count how many things you have. In past times we had a way of counting one, two and three of things but after that, the concept was 'enough or not enough'. A fisherman could catch 100 small fish which hardly amounted to anything, while another caught one large fish that amounted to far more food for his family. What mattered was whether you had caught enough or not enough. The actual number was a useless statement."

Europeans introduced the idea of counting, the priests introduced the concept of praying to forgive sins. How the Micmac could possibly have a written symbol that represented a thought they never had is beyond me.


Hello, bcuzbcuz,

Thank you for sharing this valuable and enlightening information. I can assure you that I was not saying the Lord's Prayer is native to the Mi'kmaq or makes sense in terms of traditional tribal beliefs. All I was presenting was the possibility that white Europeans, beginning with Father LeClercq, might have mystified Mi'kmaq writing and appropriated it for their own purposes. These are European ways of constructing convenient Native American identities to suit Anglo-European agendas. I was, however, being deliberately cagey about my point, so I bear you no ill will for finding my little piece silly or offensive. I think that was part of my aim in writing this.

All best,

K
"Petition wasn’t meant to start a witch hunt as I’ve said 6000 times." ~ Hanna Seariac, LDS apologist
_hagoth7
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Re: Egyptian in America?

Post by _hagoth7 »

Kishkumen wrote:
hagoth7 wrote:If Joseph knew that Mi'kmaq existed, why would he have made no mention of the connection? Would'New Testament most early members of the church have eagerly appreciated news of ancient writing in North America? Are you suggesting that he intentionally left a connection that important unsaid, like an intriguing Easter egg hidden for later researchers to find? (Or would agreeing to that acknowledge some kind of prophetic intent?)


This makes little sense, hagoth7....

It actually makes considerable sense.

The apparent fact that such validation was never published in their day suggests that none of them ever reviewed Mi'kmaq characters and/or never saw a correlation.

If Joseph and others actually knew of Mi'kmaq, wouldn't they publish the resemblance of Anthon "Caractors" to Mi'kmaq to substantiate their claims of Nephites inhabiting the ancient Americas?
Joseph Smith: "I don't blame any one for not believing my history. If I had not experienced what I have, I would not have believed it myself."
https://www.lds.org/scriptures/Book of Mormon/alm ... ang=eng#20
Red pill: https://www.lds.org/scriptures/New Testament/acts/ ... ang=eng#10
Blue pill: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5NNOrp_83RU
_Kishkumen
_Emeritus
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Re: Egyptian in America?

Post by _Kishkumen »

hagoth7 wrote:If Joseph and others actually knew of Mi'kmaq, wouldn't they publish the resemblance of Anthon "Caractors" to Mi'kmaq to substantiate their claims of Nephites inhabiting the ancient Americas?


Not necessarily, no. They could just as easily have been accused of cribbing them, and that would have done little to advance their cause.
"Petition wasn’t meant to start a witch hunt as I’ve said 6000 times." ~ Hanna Seariac, LDS apologist
_bcuzbcuz
_Emeritus
Posts: 688
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Re: Egyptian in America?

Post by _bcuzbcuz »

Kishkumen wrote:
bcuzbcuz wrote:I don't know enough about your posts to know if your writings are serious, in jest, or just plain BS.

But going from the symbols of the MicMac language representing the ideas of the Lord's prayer is total crap. To provide any claims worth their salt you must first show that the MicMac people had concepts of a father in heaven, of sin, daily bread, trespasses, evil, etc, etc.

I have lived amongst three different tribes on the west coast of Canada and the concept of sin came from the Catholic church. There was no such concept before the "holy fathers" started preaching about it.

Similarily, just a concept like counting things, attaching a number value to things, didn't exist prior to European priests and traders. One tribe elder explained it in the following manner. "You Europeans do stupid things like trying to count the stars. What a waste of energy. You count money, you count how many things you have. In past times we had a way of counting one, two and three of things but after that, the concept was 'enough or not enough'. A fisherman could catch 100 small fish which hardly amounted to anything, while another caught one large fish that amounted to far more food for his family. What mattered was whether you had caught enough or not enough. The actual number was a useless statement."

Europeans introduced the idea of counting, the priests introduced the concept of praying to forgive sins. How the Micmac could possibly have a written symbol that represented a thought they never had is beyond me.


Hello, bcuzbcuz,

Thank you for sharing this valuable and enlightening information. I can assure you that I was not saying the Lord's Prayer is native to the Mi'kmaq or makes sense in terms of traditional tribal beliefs. All I was presenting was the possibility that white Europeans, beginning with Father LeClercq, might have mystified Mi'kmaq writing and appropriated it for their own purposes. These are European ways of constructing convenient Native American identities to suit Anglo-European agendas. I was, however, being deliberately cagey about my point, so I bear you no ill will for finding my little piece silly or offensive. I think that was part of my aim in writing this.

All best,

K


Thank you for clarifying that. I agree that the possiblity that Father LaClerq appropriated the Mi'kmaq language for his own purposes is highly likely.

Another possibility is that the Mi'kmaq elders (or youths) pulled one over on the Catholic father. European Catholic encounters with the Dog tribe in northern Canada have several cases where the local native elders enjoyed a laugh at the expense of the gullibility of the naïve fathers. A story was told to a Catholic father (probably upon witnessing the father taking undo interest in the native women's breasts) that the local women had breasts so large that when trekking with their babies on their back, they could whip a breast under their arm or over their shoulder, to feed the baby without missing a beat. The father believed their whopper and wrote it in his records which have survived to this day.
And in the end, the love you take, is equal to the love...you make. PMcC
_RockSlider
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Re: Egyptian in America?

Post by _RockSlider »

bcuzbcuz,

It seems like just yesterday that the OP author and his gang of sycophants were belittling an ex-poster of high ethics and character which quite upset me as I had gained such respect for this poster.

Is it only one image in those famous Mormon sealing mirrors that represents the good man?

Love ya K


p.s. the quality of posting/information the last few days from you highfalutin scholars have blown me away.... thanks to one and all.
_Kishkumen
_Emeritus
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Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2008 10:00 pm

Re: Egyptian in America?

Post by _Kishkumen »

Love ya too, Rock.
"Petition wasn’t meant to start a witch hunt as I’ve said 6000 times." ~ Hanna Seariac, LDS apologist
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