Mormon Bishop pleads guilty to having sex with teenager.

[_LDSToronto]

This is basically sexual assault on a minor child by a person in a position of trust. What would you consider a reasonable sentence?

Loss of teaching license. 0-2 years in prison based on the particulars with 2-10 years probation and mandated counseling.

Wow. You're a generous person. Is it because Donny Bills is a white, middle-class, American?

Let me ask - if this man were black, lived in Nigeria, took girls from their homes and forced them to have sex with strangers under threat of harm - would you be so lenient?

And if not, what is the difference?

H.

[_Themis]

Wow. You're a generous person. Is it because Donny Bills is a white, middle-class, American?

Why try to label EA as raciest? Nothing he has said would indicate this.

Let me ask - if this man were black, lived in Nigeria, took girls from their homes and forced them to have sex with strangers under threat of harm - would you be so lenient?

And if not, what is the difference?

The difference would be the severity of the crime. How violent it is, etc. There can be many factors to take into account. I think there is a difference between a violent rape and one involving coercion. Your example above involves some violence in abduction, force-able confinement and forcing them to have sex with others. That's some very serious crimes. Color of skin has nothing to do with it.

[_EAllusion]

Wow. You're a generous person. Is it because Donny Bills is a white, middle-class, American?

No.

Let me ask - if this man were black, lived in Nigeria, took girls from their homes and forced them to have sex with strangers under threat of harm - would you be so lenient?

No.

And if not, what is the difference?

The severity of the coercion.

[_EAllusion]

I thought Bills had just been charged and plead out on some charges to get the other 10 dropped. I did not know he'd already been sentenced to life.

He hasn't. I don't think that is the reasonable top-end for the crime(s) he committed. The life in prison term may be a consequence of the prosecutor's ability to pile on overlapping charges that are variations of the same crime. He'll probably get a few years unless he's unlucky.

Put it this way, if the woman was 18 years old and was an intern working for him as her boss, he'd be facing either no or minor criminal penalties. That is a huge gap in outcomes for what in reality is a marginal difference in her capacity to consent and a marginal difference in the type of coercion involved. I think the majority of the error in that gap is on the side of giving his crime a life sentence. If Utah law cannot handle making fine distinctions in severity of this type of crime, that's a deficiency in Utah law.

[_EAllusion]

P.S.

I don't think I"m being a generous person here so much as some others seem to be extremely ungenerous when it comes to any crimes related to sex. Then all sense of proportionality and risk go out the window. This is more a problem in America than it is in Canada, so go figure.

[_sock puppet]

P.S.

I don't think I"m being a generous person here so much as some others seem to be extremely ungenerous when it comes to any crimes related to sex. Then all sense of proportionality and risk go out the window. This is more a problem in America than it is in Canada, so go figure.

Different cultures have different values priorities. America is way behind Europe and most other English speaking countries in sexual maturity and openness. We for the most part cannot discuss human sexuality and desire in public. Among a large segment of the American population, a mother would freak out if she walked into her 15 year old son's bedroom to find him jerking off. We're yet quite Victorian in our attitudes and predisposition towards sex. So sex crimes here are considered more serious, and the punishment thus more fitting to how serious American society views sex crimes.

[_Sammy Jankins]

P.S.

I don't think I"m being a generous person here so much as some others seem to be extremely ungenerous when it comes to any crimes related to sex. Then all sense of proportionality and risk go out the window. This is more a problem in America than it is in Canada, so go figure.

Isn't it because of the effect it can have on it's victims?

I mean, if someone steals my car or takes $10,000 from me I'd be unhappy for sure. But being raped, that's something else entirely.

I think the laws were put in place with exactly someone like Bills in mind.

[_LDSToronto]

And if not, what is the difference?

The severity of the coercion.

Then, in your mind these scenarios, which could all lead to forced sexual activity, are different? And even though the outcome is the same, somehow each scenario mitigates the penalty?

1. Victim is told she will lose grades
2. Victim is told she will lose membership in a club
3. Victim is told she will lose a scholarship
4. Victim is told she will lose a job
5. Victim is told she will lose loved ones
6. Victim is told she will lose religious status
7. Victim is held at knifepoint/gunpoint
8. Victim's loved ones are in danger of imminent harm
9. Victim is drugged


In your mind, some these are kinder, gentler forms of rape? Am I missing something?

H.

[_Jersey Girl]

This is basically sexual assault on a minor child by a person in a position of trust. What would you consider a reasonable sentence?

Loss of teaching license. 0-2 years in prison based on the particulars with 2-10 years probation and mandated counseling.

For a sexual predator and likely pedophile?

Well, that's my take on the man. I don't expect anyone else to share it.

[_I have a question]

The bigger issue seems to be that Mormon God is good with this.

This Bishop used his position of trust to manipulate this minor over an extended period of time. It was calculated, it was deliberate, it was not spur of the moment. This girl and this man were surrounded by Mormon family, friends and other Church leaders like counsellors, Stake Presidency and High Council members. None of them were divinely prompted sufficiently to address the issue before it ran its course.

What needs to happen before the Church acts to put policies and processes in place that protect the flock from pedophiles like this one? Because 'inspired callings' ain't working.