BartBurk wrote:I never heard of her. A large number of converts eventually go inactive/leave.
My experience is that about 1/3 of young people raised as Mormons eventually go inactive or leave. It doesn't surprise me that some of her friends are leaving. We attend to attract friends a lot like ourselves.
2/3's don't? Inculcation of fear really finds significant traction in the human psyche.
Any idea what the proportionality is with converts eventually going inactive or leaving?
Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:Anecdotally, ... my daughters ... live in the Davis High school district, and from what I gather through conversations with them most Mormon kids are apathetic to the Church at best.
That is what I have observed, from more of a distance, is the biggest change since the 1970s when I was in high school. Then, there were believers and they participated in the LDS church. Occasionally, someone else would come for a few weeks, even two or three months in some instances, then fade away. Nonbeliever teens did not participate in the church where I grew up. Today that seems quite different. There are many going-through-the-motions teen Mormons. They're agnostic about the LDS church's truth claims. They don't seem persuaded, don't care but want to pacify their parents/extended family, plan to go to a BYU, on a mission, marry in the temple--rites of passage--and not care in the least what JSJr claimed or that there are in SLC 15 mute prophesiers, seeing and revealing nothing. (I did not encounter but 1 or 2 of those type of young Mormons until I was a student at BYU-Provo. There, it seemed to be about a 20% segment of the student population, having haled from urban/sprawling suburban areas, not rural and semi-rural areas as where I had grown up. Today, the "believer" under age 30 is a rare bird.)
BartBurk wrote:I never heard of her. A large number of converts eventually go inactive/leave.
My experience is that about 1/3 of young people raised as Mormons eventually go inactive or leave. It doesn't surprise me that some of her friends are leaving. We tend to attract friends a lot like ourselves.
2/3's don't? Inculcation of fear really finds significant traction in the human psyche.
Any idea what the proportionality is with converts eventually going inactive or leaving?
In my experience about 90 percent of converts eventually leave/go inactive.
sock puppet wrote: That is what I have observed, from more of a distance, is the biggest change since the 1970s when I was in high school. Then, there were believers and they participated in the LDS church. Occasionally, someone else would come for a few weeks, even two or three months in some instances, then fade away. Nonbeliever teens did not participate in the church where I grew up. Today that seems quite different. There are many going-through-the-motions teen Mormons. They're agnostic about the LDS church's truth claims. They don't seem persuaded, don't care but want to pacify their parents/extended family, plan to go to a BYU, on a mission, marry in the temple--rites of passage--and not care in the least what JSJr claimed or that there are in Salt Lake City 15 mute prophesiers, seeing and revealing nothing. (I did not encounter but 1 or 2 of those type of young Mormons until I was a student at BYU-Provo. There, it seemed to be about a 20% segment of the student population, having haled from urban/sprawling suburban areas, not rural and semi-rural areas as where I had grown up. Today, the "believer" under age 30 is a rare bird.)
I wonder how many are "saved" by going on a mission and how much that drove the church to lower the missionary age for both young men and young women?
But it's been interesting to see the other boys his age at church and in my extended family. My nephews that have reached missionary age aren't going. The other boys in the ward aren't going. I'd say it's maybe 1 in 4 that end up on missions. And these are boys that appear to be worthy and otherwise able to go. They attend Church every week, and don't get into much trouble.
Maybe these have always been the stats; I never really paid much attention. But if this is a new trend, it's not a good one for the Church.
Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:Anecdotally, ... my daughters ... live in the Davis High school district, and from what I gather through conversations with them most Mormon kids are apathetic to the Church at best.
That is what I have observed, from more of a distance, is the biggest change since the 1970s when I was in high school. Then, there were believers and they participated in the LDS church. Occasionally, someone else would come for a few weeks, even two or three months in some instances, then fade away. Nonbeliever teens did not participate in the church where I grew up. Today that seems quite different. There are many going-through-the-motions teen Mormons. They're agnostic about the LDS church's truth claims. They don't seem persuaded, don't care but want to pacify their parents/extended family, plan to go to a BYU, on a mission, marry in the temple--rites of passage--and not care in the least what JSJr claimed or that there are in Salt Lake City 15 mute prophesiers, seeing and revealing nothing. (I did not encounter but 1 or 2 of those type of young Mormons until I was a student at BYU-Provo. There, it seemed to be about a 20% segment of the student population, having haled from urban/sprawling suburban areas, not rural and semi-rural areas as where I had grown up. Today, the "believer" under age 30 is a rare bird.)
Hmm. So it's "not with a bang, but a whimper."
Zadok: I did not have a faith crisis. I discovered that the Church was having a truth crisis. Maksutov: That's the problem with this supernatural stuff, it doesn't really solve anything. It's a placeholder for ignorance.
So they have a spat, break up and leave the Church. The major question is who gets the blog articles? Got to prioritize. Sometimes leaving is just one hissy fit away.
The believer under 30 is a rare bird? Somehow as an apostate I have two children under 30 who are active. My daughter at Purdue had a large Institute of under-30 actives. Several friends of mine have children who are all active married in the temple believers under 30. My wife's ward in Mishawaka, Indiana has a large transient group of married in the temple Notre Dame grad students who are active -- most of them went to BYU or public universities in Utah. Most of the kids in my wife's ward serve missions. Maybe LDS in Indiana do a better job of inculcating their children, but I doubt it.
I had a chance to talk about the Church broadly with my dad the last time we visited. In the conversation he said of the group of boys I had been in the Aaronic Priesthood with growing up, at least one had officially left the church and about half had openly stated they didn't believe but had not officially resigned. I fall in the latter category. Interestingly, the ones I know who stayed active are also those of my friends I used to think of as being a bit too conforming by nature. Two of our group came back from their missions having served the full two years and being released honorably that confided in me they had been told things while in the mission field they couldn't answer, but didn't want to go into details with me.
That was a while ago, just as AOL was BLEEP<BLOP_SQUELCHing on the cutting edge of the internet age, too. I can only imagine what it's like to be a young adult today.
BUT - in my wife's family even though we've seen more non-missionary nephews among her siblings I've not seen anyone forego the temple sealing if they skipped the temple wedding. I'm also positive our daughter is the only one of both my parents' and my wife's parents' grandchildren that isn't baptized who is well over the age of 8. Even in my brothers' families who are not active either their wives or some other family reason has caused them to go along with the baptism ritual as a family. So the stats I've anecdotally seen seem mixed still.
I'm waiting for the non-temple wedding/sealing in a marriage that makes it 5 years or more without finding their way back to the Church in some capacity. That will be a watershed moment, in my opinion. I'm doubting there will be any non-baptisms among my siblings' kids. But among the grandchildren's generation I'm thinking it's more likely.
Perhaps Mormonism is become a bit more catholic...
The world is always full of the sound of waves..but who knows the heart of the sea, a hundred feet down? Who knows it's depth? ~ Eiji Yoshikawa
moksha wrote:So they have a spat, break up and leave the Church. The major question is who gets the blog articles? Got to prioritize. Sometimes leaving is just one hissy fit away.
She covered that in a blog post long ago. The split from MM was not nice.