Discriminatory Cake Making: The Free Exercise of Religion

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_sock puppet
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Discriminatory Cake Making: The Free Exercise of Religion

Post by _sock puppet »

DENVER (AP) — A case that tests the boundaries of religious freedom and gay rights came to the Colorado Court of Appeals on Tuesday, with a suburban Denver baker urging judges not to force him to make cakes for same-sex couples because it would violate his beliefs.

But attorneys representing a gay couple who were denied a wedding cake in 2012 countered that allowing businesses to turn away customers through religious exemptions will facilitate future discrimination.

“Religious beliefs do not put the cake shop above the law,” argued Ria Mar, an American Civil Liberties Union attorney representing the couple. The court will issue a ruling later.

The case underscores how the already simmering tension between religious-freedom advocates and gay-rights supporters is likely to become more heated in the aftermath of the U.S. Supreme Court’s landmark ruling last month legalizing same-sex marriage nationwide.

“What the relationship is between that reality and sort of what that will mean for things like service provisions is where I think the battles will really be fought now,” said Melissa Hart, a law professor at the University of Colorado.

As gay rights gained greater acceptance in recent years, the Colorado case and others like it in other states have ignited a passionate debate over whether individuals can cite their beliefs as a basis for declining to participate in a same-sex wedding ceremony. In other states, gay couples have prevailed.

Last week, the owners of a Portland, Oregon-area bakery that declined to make a wedding cake for a gay couple two years ago were ordered to pay $135,000 in damages. Two years ago, the New Mexico Supreme Court ruled that a photographer who wouldn’t take pictures of a gay couple’s 2006 commitment ceremony violated the state’s anti-discrimination law.

In Washington state, a florist has been fighting a lawsuit filed after she refused to provide services for a gay wedding in 2013.

At the center of the Colorado case are baker Jack Phillips, owner of Lakewood’s Masterpiece Cakeshop, and Charlie Craig and David Mullins, who were married in Massachusetts and wanted a wedding cake to celebrate in Colorado.

Phillips said he has no problem serving gay people at his store, but he says that making a wedding cake for a same-sex wedding would violate his Christian beliefs.


What religious tenets call for bakers to deny wedding cakes to gay couples?
_MrSimpleton
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Re: Discriminatory Cake Making: The Free Exercise of Religio

Post by _MrSimpleton »

Are you blocked from MDDB? The discussion has come up several times in the past weeks.
_sock puppet
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Re: Discriminatory Cake Making: The Free Exercise of Religio

Post by _sock puppet »

MrSimpleton wrote:Are you blocked from MDDB? The discussion has come up several times in the past weeks.

I am. I was blocked there after registering and making 2 or 3 posts. I had the audacity to ask questions in those posts. The second (and if there was a third) post simply asked a more pointed question when posts in response to my first post of inquiry were deflecting away from my question.

In late 2009, I think it was, I was involved in a heated board war with MAD regarding the vaunted "2nd Watson Letter" that DCP declared he had held in his own hands and saw with his own eyes BUT TURNS OUT NEVER EXISTED, according to Hamblin's admissions in that board war. My postings in that board war were just here, but beastie (my ally in that board war) was posting both here and there. I haven't given much of a rat's ass about what goes on there since. I've maybe taken a look one or twice in the last 12 months.
_Everybody Wang Chung
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Re: Discriminatory Cake Making: The Free Exercise of Religio

Post by _Everybody Wang Chung »

sock puppet wrote:In late 2009, I think it was, I was involved in a heated board war with MAD regarding the vaunted "2nd Watson Letter" that DCP declared he had held in his own hands and saw with his own eyes BUT TURNS OUT NEVER EXISTED, according to Hamblin's admissions in that board war. My postings in that board war were just here, but beastie (my ally in that board war) was posting both here and there. I haven't given much of a rat's ass about what goes on there since. I've maybe taken a look one or twice in the last 12 months.


The 2nd Watson Letter that never existed. That's truly a classic.

DCP publicly claiming that he had held the 2nd Watson Letter in his own hands. He truly has no honor.

I haven't paid much attention to MAD since the Great Board War of 2011 when Nemesis/Jan had a meltdown of epic proportions. If you want a good laugh, go read her posts during that time.
"I'm on paid sabbatical from BYU in exchange for my promise to use this time to finish two books."

Daniel C. Peterson, 2014
_ldsfaqs
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Re: Discriminatory Cake Making: The Free Exercise of Religio

Post by _ldsfaqs »

I honestly don't know what people don't understand about the "right to refuse service" means?

There is a HUGE difference for not wanting to do something for people that exist (a.k.a. blacks exist), which would be descrimination, and not wanting to SUPPORT AN ACTIVITY done by people, a.k.a. creating a "Gay Cake", and working a "Gay Wedding".

Do you people really not comprehend the difference?

Do you also not understand that you have the right to refuse service to people for IDEOLOGICAL reasons also?
If Rush Limbaugh came to you and wanted you to do work for him, you would have every right to refuse service to him because of YOUR BELIEFS.

Yet, somehow you think Conservatives don't have the right to deny service for their ideological differences with others?

Somehow, you think a Photographer should be FORCED to take pictures of a Porn Movie simply because customers want them to.
Somehow, you think a Cake Maker should be forced to make a "Dick Cake" simply because customers want them to.
on and on and on...... can't "descriminate" after all.....

You people are fools and creating dangerous law by forcing your will on everyone else.
You don't like it when Fanatical Islam or Christianity of history does it or has done it.
So, why in your right minds do you think YOU have the right to force your ideology and behaviors on everyone else????
"Socialism is Rape and Capitalism is consensual sex" - Ben Shapiro
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Re: Discriminatory Cake Making: The Free Exercise of Religio

Post by _sock puppet »

ldsfaqs wrote:I honestly don't know what people don't understand about the "right to refuse service" means?

There is a HUGE difference for not wanting to do something for people that exist (a.k.a. blacks exist), which would be descrimination, and not wanting to SUPPORT AN ACTIVITY done by people, a.k.a. creating a "Gay Cake", and working a "Gay Wedding".

Do you people really not comprehend the difference?

Do you also not understand that you have the right to refuse service to people for IDEOLOGICAL reasons also?
If Rush Limbaugh came to you and wanted you to do work for him, you would have every right to refuse service to him because of YOUR BELIEFS.

Yet, somehow you think Conservatives don't have the right to deny service for their ideological differences with others?

Somehow, you think a Photographer should be FORCED to take pictures of a Porn Movie simply because customers want them to.
Somehow, you think a Cake Maker should be forced to make a "Dick Cake" simply because customers want them to.
on and on and on...... can't "descriminate" after all.....

You people are fools and creating dangerous law by forcing your will on everyone else.
You don't like it when Fanatical Islam or Christianity of history does it or has done it.
So, why in your right minds do you think YOU have the right to force your ideology and behaviors on everyone else????

Where are the LDS missionaries dispatched to?
_Jersey Girl
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Re: Discriminatory Cake Making: The Free Exercise of Religio

Post by _Jersey Girl »

I am far too easily amused by you.

ldsfaqs wrote:I honestly don't know what people don't understand about the "right to refuse service" means?


If you write a coherent sentence, I'll try to understand.

There is a HUGE difference for not wanting to do something for people that exist (a.k.a. blacks exist), which would be descrimination, and not wanting to SUPPORT AN ACTIVITY done by people, a.k.a. creating a "Gay Cake", and working a "Gay Wedding".

Do you people really not comprehend the difference?


So what you're saying is gay persons don't exist. How close did I get?

Do you also not understand that you have the right to refuse service to people for IDEOLOGICAL reasons also?
If Rush Limbaugh came to you and wanted you to do work for him, you would have every right to refuse service to him because of YOUR BELIEFS.


Rush Limbaugh?

Yet, somehow you think Conservatives don't have the right to deny service for their ideological differences with others?

Somehow, you think a Photographer should be FORCED to take pictures of a Porn Movie simply because customers want them to.


A (I can't believe I am doing this) photographer offers services, typically with a portfolio of their work. For example, wedding photography, studio portraits. Who is going to FORCE a photography to take pictures of a Porn Movie, and why would anyone want pictures of a Porn Movie?

What exactly ARE pictures of a Porn Movie?

Somehow, you think a Cake Maker should be forced to make a "Dick Cake" simply because customers want them to.
on and on and on...... can't "descriminate" after all.....


You mean a baker? A bakery, like the photographer, typically has a portfolio of their work. For example, sheet cakes, layer cakes, with the styles they use...for example, "Happy Birthday" or "Congratulations", types of icing, fondant, and that sort of thing. If the baker (you know the Cake Maker?) has a "Dick Cake" in their portfolio, then yes, I would expect them to make a "Dick Cake" for anyone who wanted one. Likewise, if they had a traditional wedding cake in their portfolio, then yes, they should make one for anyone who wanted one.

(I can't afford the IQ points I just lost. I'm just sayin')

You people are fools and creating dangerous law by forcing your will on everyone else.
You don't like it when Fanatical Islam or Christianity of history does it or has done it.
So, why in your right minds do you think YOU have the right to force your ideology and behaviors on everyone else????


Who is forcing their behaviors on anyone? Is someone from this board demanding a "Dick Cake" or a picture of a Porn Movie?

In closing, did you notice that you had to actually override the system here in order to misspell "discrimination" and "discriminate"? Why would you go out of your way to do that? I'm curious.
Failure is not falling down but refusing to get up.
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_I have a question
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Re: Discriminatory Cake Making: The Free Exercise of Religio

Post by _I have a question »

I missed the bit where this couple are being forced to open and operate cake shop?


ldsfaqs, what's a 'Gay Cake'?
“When we are confronted with evidence that challenges our deeply held beliefs we are more likely to reframe the evidence than we are to alter our beliefs. We simply invent new reasons, new justifications, new explanations. Sometimes we ignore the evidence altogether.” (Mathew Syed 'Black Box Thinking')
_ldsfaqs
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Re: Discriminatory Cake Making: The Free Exercise of Religio

Post by _ldsfaqs »

I have a question wrote:I missed the bit where this couple are being forced to open and operate cake shop?


ldsfaqs, what's a 'Gay Cake'?


If you're not smart enough to figure that out then I can't help you.
But I'll try.....

Well, what do most Wedding Cakes have on top of them?
A gay Wedding Cake would have "Two Men".

Further, baking a cake in support of an "activity" i.e. a Wedding, is an activity supporting an activity.
Human beings in Freedom should not be forced to support activity's that are against their concious.

So, because they open a cake shop, in your mind they should be force to make ANY type of cake?
How immoral and evil you liberals are. And you wonder why I/we call you fascists.
"Socialism is Rape and Capitalism is consensual sex" - Ben Shapiro
_ludwigm
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Re: Discriminatory Cake Making: The Free Exercise of Religio

Post by _ludwigm »

ldsfaqs wrote:How immoral and evil you liberals are. And you wonder why I/we call you fascists.

Can you (singular you, see "I" above) write ANY COMMENT without calling others
- evil
- immoral
- fascist
(stupid, liar, bigot, ignorant etc...) ?

Who are you (plural you, see "we" above)? Are here - in this site - any others who can not write a comment without that negative words?
- Whenever a poet or preacher, chief or wizard spouts gibberish, the human race spends centuries deciphering the message. - Umberto Eco
- To assert that the earth revolves around the sun is as erroneous as to claim that Jesus was not born of a virgin. - Cardinal Bellarmine at the trial of Galilei
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