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I don't think you (LDSfaqs) understand what Benson was saying when he clarified the 14 F's of the prophet as doctrine of the church. AND IT IS DOCTRINE.

Your four points of what constitutes "doctrine" is just silly. But I'm glad that are able to cog dis these kind of things like Bednar's statement and the 14 F's of the prophet to make sense out of it all.

ldsfaqs wrote:Joy and gratitude to God then went to sorrow that the Church would place a policy above family and the needs of the children and me.
There is no chance of us "sinning" for example, so it would be no different than if I was a maid and providing child care.
Even still, since when was Christ in the Business of Punishing people for what "could" happen, even though it really couldn't with my character???

Sad thing is, because of it the ex reverted to her old mistreatment, so now I have to deal with that also.

Dude! Wake the freak up! You are in a stupid cult. This is how a cult behaves! Why can't you get that?!

Wow.

pashaman wrote:"I spoke as a man before I spoke as a prophet...or was it that I spoke as a prophet before I spoke as a man? Anywho, as pickles are cucumbers may become and as prophetic words are, words of man they may become...so that the servants of the pickle may always have wiggle room for the pickle and his servants!

Damned be the cucumber that speaks out of turn, unless he repents and serves the pickle!
Amen." --Elder Bednar probably.

It's not that complicated.....

When the Prophet speaks, his words are ALWAYS confirmed or denied with the scriptures, the Holy Ghost, and common consent.
Thus, it's fairly easy to know if a prophet is likely speaking as a man, expouding his own private views and/or inspiration, or otherwise.

The Prophets have always taught that we must confirm and know things for ourselves, not to hang on their every word.
Brigham Young made a famous statement on this, he warned the saints.

pashaman wrote:

ldsfaqs wrote:Joy and gratitude to God then went to sorrow that the Church would place a policy above family and the needs of the children and me.
There is no chance of us "sinning" for example, so it would be no different than if I was a maid and providing child care.
Even still, since when was Christ in the Business of Punishing people for what "could" happen, even though it really couldn't with my character???

Sad thing is, because of it the ex reverted to her old mistreatment, so now I have to deal with that also.

Dude! Wake the freak up! You are in a stupid cult. This is how a cult behaves! Why can't you get that?!

Wow.

Yeah. For sure. LDSfaqs....I agree with you here. The church is in the wrong. You have done nothing wrong. But they will never admit that, and they are using your fam against you as a weapon.

THAT IS A CULT.

pashaman wrote:

ldsfaqs wrote:Joy and gratitude to God then went to sorrow that the Church would place a policy above family and the needs of the children and me.
There is no chance of us "sinning" for example, so it would be no different than if I was a maid and providing child care.
Even still, since when was Christ in the Business of Punishing people for what "could" happen, even though it really couldn't with my character???

Sad thing is, because of it the ex reverted to her old mistreatment, so now I have to deal with that also.

Dude! Wake the freak up! You are in a stupid cult. This is how a cult behaves! Why can't you get that?!

Wow.

Sorry, not in a cult.... Every single thing you all claim is FALSE.
Things like this sometimes happen, a policy falls through the cracks in a big organization.

Further, the policy has a legit purpose, and wisdom in it. However, like I said, it should also have had some freedom to follow the spirit of the law, rather than the letter.
FYI, I've been an anti-mormon already. I don't need to be "woke up" about anything, I know your every claim, and I know them to be wrong.

ldsfaqs wrote:
Sorry, not in a cult.... Every single thing you all claim is FALSE.
Things like this sometimes happen, a policy falls through the cracks in a big organization.

Further, the policy has a legit purpose, and wisdom in it. However, like I said, it should also have had some freedom to follow the spirit of the law, rather than the letter.
FYI, I've been an anti-mormon already. I don't need to be "woke up" about anything, I know you every claim, and I know them to be wrong.

I pity you man. I know you don't want it and you will just call me an anti Mormon liar bigot when you read this, but still...

Sorry for what the church has put you through.

Now, I'm going to head down to Christmas Valley to the music festival and drink some beer with my wife and just thank the gods that she walked away from the cult when church members encouraged her it was okay to divorce me because I was an apostate, wolf in sheep clothing, Dehlinite. It doesn't always work out this way. The church has been responsible for so many broken families and pain. I'm one of the lucky ones, and I know it and I'm grateful for it.

Talk Later faqs.

cwald wrote:Yeah. For sure. LDSfaqs....I agree with you here. The church is in the wrong. You have done nothing wrong. But they will never admit that, and they are using your fam against you as a weapon.

THAT IS A CULT.

I can appreciate the concern. You need to understand that I'm not the only LDS who has an issue with this.
But, you also must understand that while the Gospel is perfect, the "Church" sometimes isn't, because people in it are sometimes imperfect.
The Church has a process for dealing with things that might need to be improved. I just got unlucky that this one thing hasn't been corrected and improved yet.

I am going to be appealing this to the First Presidency. They have often given approval in these situations.
However, I'm looking for more than that, and that is for the policy itself to be improved and clarified.

But, thank you about the "using the family against me as a weapon", it's a good point I will also address in the letter I write.

ldsfaqs wrote:It's not that complicated.....

When the Prophet speaks, his words are ALWAYS confirmed or denied with the scriptures, the Holy Ghost, and common consent.
Thus, it's fairly easy to know if a prophet is likely speaking as a man, expouding his own private views and/or inspiration, or otherwise.

The Prophets have always taught that we must confirm and know things for ourselves, not to hang on their every word.
Brigham Young made a famous statement on this, he warned the saints.

There are so many glaring contradictions in that line of reasoning that I don't know where to begin. I guess that's the problem with you and people who believe as you do. You are lazy minded and you like your world and your world view simplified for you.

Well, I have an honest assessment for you on this and at your level of reasoning. I read enough Mormon history to be completely disgusted about it. Then I prayed about it and asked God, "Are these men truly your servants?" I had this stupor of thought (which is probably more of a sign that I'm ADD), and I said, "Huh, I guess not then, Lord! Wow, the world is a lot more scary and complicated, now." and all of a sudden this overwhelming feeling of peace and love came over me letting me know it was going to be okay. This is what happened to me. I was a good boy and keeping myself clean and out of trouble and this is what happened.

So, which one of us is right?

cwald wrote:I pity you man. I know you don't want it and you will just call me an anti Mormon liar bigot when you read this, but still...

Sorry for what the church has put you through.

Now, I'm going to head down to Christmas Valley to the music festival and drink some beer with my wife and just thank the gods that she walked away from the cult when church members encouraged her it was okay to divorce me because I was an apostate, wolf in sheep clothing, Dehlinite. It doesn't always work out this way. The church has been responsible for so many broken families and pain. I'm one of the lucky ones, and I know it and I'm grateful for it.

Talk Later faqs.

Sorry to hear that, however, it's absolutely NOT church practice and policy to break up family's.
It does not teach nor encorage family's to be broken up simply because someone apostasizes.
So, if members did that, they were very much wrong to, and it's something most members know better NOT to do. However, it's also possible they were recommending it for other reasons, not "simply" apostasy? Maybe it was because of your anti-mormonism? But, even still, still wrong.

So, that should show you we aren't a "cult" as you believe.

In my case, my leadership believes we should do things the "right way".
I should be on my own and a proper supporter, and if we want to be together, we should do it right and be married.
There is wisdom in this..... But again, it's not exactly our situation. So, I got screwed.
It's clearly something that needs to be fixed, because no matter what, my family is the most important, and it's what we all needed atm.

by the way, what's further interesting is that if my ex and I simply filled out the marriage paperwork saying we were married, even if we in no other way were acting as married people, the Church would have no problem with it. But, my ex atm doesn't want to give up her freedom. But, I still have to address this with her further. It's going to be a test for her, to see if she really cares about the needs of the kids and me, and thus willing to sacrifice herself some, or if she's just doing this to make herself feel better.

So, we shall see how this all goes..... I'm dealing with an eye infection, and was sad about all this stuff initially, so things are delayed.
It's unfortunate, because it was the perfect time, now things must wait.

pashaman wrote:

ldsfaqs wrote:It's not that complicated.....

When the Prophet speaks, his words are ALWAYS confirmed or denied with the scriptures, the Holy Ghost, and common consent.
Thus, it's fairly easy to know if a prophet is likely speaking as a man, expouding his own private views and/or inspiration, or otherwise.

The Prophets have always taught that we must confirm and know things for ourselves, not to hang on their every word.
Brigham Young made a famous statement on this, he warned the saints.

There are so many glaring contradictions in that line of reasoning that I don't know where to begin. I guess that's the problem with you and people who believe as you do. You are lazy minded and you like your world and your world view simplified for you.

Well, I have an honest assessment for you on this and at your level of reasoning. I read enough Mormon history to be completely disgusted about it. Then I prayed about it and asked God, "Are these men truly your servants?" I had this stupor of thought (which is probably more of a sign that I'm ADD), and I said, "Huh, I guess not then, Lord! Wow, the world is a lot more scary and complicated, now." and all of a sudden this overwhelming feeling of peace and love came over me letting me know it was going to be okay. This is what happened to me. I was a good boy and keeping myself clean and out of trouble and this is what happened.

So, which one of us is right?

There are no glaring contradictions, it's your imagination.
It's funny that you say that, because in my perspective being both a convert, and having left the Church and been anti-mormon and anti-religion, to me it's the anti-mormon like you who are "lazy-minded". Because you cherry pick some negative things, and then just destroy the whole thing. I know, I've been there.

Do you think you're the first one to question some things?
What you don't get, is that we who see the same things you do, end up seeing MORE, because we are wiser, more patient, and study more, to see what is REALLY the truth. I left the Church primarily because of the black and priesthood issue, polygamy, and women and priesthood.
I asked the same thing, could these wicked "unfair" things be really a part of God's True Church? Nope.
Problem is..... is like you said, I was a lazy minded anti-mormon. I saw the surface, and then judged in my utter ignorance.
It wasn't until I put away my judgments, and decided to keep learning that I then saw the full facts of things, and the issues in question, realizing that my assumptions were based on pre-judging ignorance.