DiscussMormonism.com

Equality wrote:

suniluni2 wrote:That would be great. The display says he used it to find lost objects so I'd simply ask them what objects did he find and where is the fact of these findings documented. Please let us know what they say if you're able to make it down there.

Won't they just say that he found a needle in a haystack with it, according to Martin Harris?
http://www.deseretnews.com/article/705346461/How-a-seer-stone-helped-in-the-Book-of-Mormon-translation.html?pg=all

Thanks, I didn't know about that story. Finding a needle in a haystack? Sounds contrived.

Also from the article:

We don't know how Joseph was able to do this, and we don't know what his success rate was for finding lost or hidden objects. The important thing is that Joseph believed that he was able to find lost objects and that this gift was granted him by God.

WTF? He has it completely backwards! The important thing is Joseph Smith's success rate, not his belief! Otherwise, you have no basis to judge his claim that he found lost or hidden objects. In the past I've sometimes thought critics were unfairly harsh on this Ash guy, but holy crap, now I see where they're coming from.

There are at least three replicas there demonstrating different aspects of the plates, including one you can lift to defuse those concerns you have about them being too heavy.

Lead has a density of about 11.3 grams per cc,
Gold has a density of about 19.3 grams per cc.

There is something sad about a museum resorting to carnival trickery.

moksha wrote:

There are at least three replicas there demonstrating different aspects of the plates, including one you can lift to defuse those concerns you have about them being too heavy.

Lead has a density of about 11.3 grams per cc,
Gold has a density of about 19.3 grams per cc.

There is something sad about a museum resorting to carnival trickery.

What? Grams per cc? METRIC units?

You should have used lbs per cubic inch.
Or furlongs per fortnight to define the speed of light..

Aeons ago, when I was active - and a teacher of the Military College - one of my students has asked "why is the standard of the copper thickness of printed circuit board 35 micron" (μm, um) ?

In that pre-internet era, I wasted one week - 437th rule of teachers: you should answer all of the student's questions - to find the answer.

One oz of copper per one square foot area gives that 35 micron.

by the way the standard lecture period is one microcentury...

ludwigm wrote:by the way the standard lecture period is one microcentury...

Neat.

(100 x 365 x 24 x 60 minutes) / 1,000,000 = 52 minutes (2 sig figs)

Made my day ...

And the standard Sunday block is 3 microcenturies, although from the accounts we read here there may be a strange Mormon time dilation effect that makes it last much, much longer.

(See? We are still talking about Mormonism ... )

Arrakis wrote:

LDS apostle Jeffrey R. Holland, who oversees the church's historical efforts, said he was "thrilled" to know that thousands of visitors will get a "view of our collective past."

A sense of honor and respect for history "is essential to any civilized society," he said, adding that it has "always been part of LDS history."

"The building and exhibits were tired," Holland told The Salt Lake Tribune. "In its own way, it fits with trying to tell our story as openly and honestly as we know how."

Historians consulted scholars "far and wide," the apostle said. "When we learn it, we'll tell it. When we know more, we'll teach it."

Uh Huh....sure.

"When we learn it...."
This generally happens 10 to 20 years after the rest of the known world already knew about it, and after the Church has warned members about it and labelled it an anti-mormon lie.

"...we'll tell it."
This generally means we will tell some of it, but not all of it, and we'll tell it in such a way as it sounds as though we've always taught it, even though we haven't.

That whole sentence is predicated on the basis that it will only be done when and if members start to complain about it and stop turning up on Sundays because of it.

Holland said the polygamy display was included because “plural marriage was a fact of life for the early Mormon church.”

“It wouldn’t be much history in this church if that were not acknowledged,” said Holland, a member of the faith’s governing body called the Quorum of the Twelve. “It’s not a principal part of the exhibit, but we acknowledge that was a fact for some years in the church.’

http://www.seattletimes.com/life/travel ... ty-museum/

Holland seems to be acknowledging that the Seminary, Institute and other teaching programmes of the Church haven't 'taught much history' over the last few generations. Givens confirms that in the same article:

It used to be possible to tour all the Mormon historic sites in Salt Lake City without ever hearing or reading the word plural marriage or polygamy, Givens said.

That's an admission that the Church has lied about its history.

Lying is intentionally deceiving others. Bearing false witness is one form of lying. The Lord gave this commandment to the children of Israel: “Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour” (Exodus 20:16). Jesus also taught this when He was on earth (see Matthew 19:18). There are many other forms of lying. When we speak untruths, we are guilty of lying. We can also intentionally deceive others by a gesture or a look, by silence, or by telling only part of the truth. Whenever we lead people in any way to believe something that is not true, we are not being honest.

https://www.lds.org/manual/gospel-princ ... y?lang=eng

Chap wrote:(See? We are still talking about Mormonism ...)

That is, only one of us both (??? only one both of us ???) will be moved to OD. Guess who!

Ok. I'm returning and reporting. First off the renovation is pretty slick, although limited to the ground floor. Also, the museum is smaller than I had anticipated. Still, it was nicely done. There are a lot of interactive exhibits, and even the static ones are relatively interesting. Unfortunately all the pics I took from my phone, and thought I had sent myself via Gmail in order to upload to imgur have been deleted through sheer incompetence on my part. However, here's a video we took of them admitting to Joseph Smith using the seer stone and hat:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWf1gL6 ... e=youtu.be

I will tell you they have a small explanation of the seer stones & straight up admit Joseph Smith used them to 'translate' the Book of Mormon. It's right there on their wall along with an image of the seer stone and the pouch it was kept in. Along with that explanation they claim Joseph Smith used "two other seer stones set in framework". Sounds a lot like spectacles if you ask me...

They have a replica set of golden plates with the Anthon script characters etched into them.

Basically, the entire exhibit is one giant set of misdirection and obfuscation along with faith-promoting narratives that aren't totally truthful. I'll have to go back at some point and re-take the pics because it's pretty fascinating how the Church goes about presenting its history.

Oh, and there was Church security there, too. It's odd seeing dudes in ill fitting suits with badges clipped onto their belts. It's unsettling, frankly.

- Doc

Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:Ok. I'm returning and reporting.

Thanks! I enjoyed reading it.

Hey hey, since I'm a MENSA-level genius I figured out how to recover the pics from my phone!



- Doc