John Dehlin: A Spy Story

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_Equality
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Re: John Dehlin: A Spy Story

Post by _Equality »

hagoth7 wrote:Boy do I ever disagree. Fully and completely.

People actually do have principles, believe it or not.

Added: To say that it happens on occasion is one thing. But to say that the majority of members would act that way is balderdash, IMNSHO.

I agree. The vast majority of members of the LDS church do not even attend church regularly. Many do not even self-identify as Mormon. Even if a majority of temple-"worthy" active members would engage in the activities Dehlin talks about, that's still a small minority of the 15 million members.
"The Church is authoritarian, tribal, provincial, and founded on a loosely biblical racist frontier sex cult."--Juggler Vain
"The lds church is the Amway of religions. Even with all the soap they sell, they still manage to come away smelling dirty."--Some Schmo
_Doctor CamNC4Me
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Re: John Dehlin: A Spy Story

Post by _Doctor CamNC4Me »

Ugh. In Yahoo Bot's world human intelligence isn't spying if the POI gives up intel freely.

Sigh...

- Doc
In the face of madness, rationality has no power - Xiao Wang, US historiographer, 2287 AD.

Every record...falsified, every book rewritten...every statue...has been renamed or torn down, every date...altered...the process is continuing...minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Ideology is always right.
_Yahoo Bot
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Re: John Dehlin: A Spy Story

Post by _Yahoo Bot »

Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:Ugh. In Yahoo Bot's world human intelligence isn't spying if the POI gives up intel freely.

Sigh...

- Doc


How lucid.
_Kishkumen
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Re: John Dehlin: A Spy Story

Post by _Kishkumen »

Yahoo Bot wrote:No it isn't. What "private online fora" is not a public forum if it admits anonymous posters?


Two questions, Bot:

Is there any other insider information on the effort to stalk John Dehlin that you would like to share?

Do you think we don't already know you approve of crappy behavior so long as it isn't legally actionable?
"Petition wasn’t meant to start a witch hunt as I’ve said 6000 times." ~ Hanna Seariac, LDS apologist
_Prester John
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Re: John Dehlin: A Spy Story

Post by _Prester John »

Kishkumen wrote:In this case, I have to agree with Tobin. It is not that LDS people lack principles. It's just that those principles can be overridden by the demands of their LDS Church membership.


Reasonable people do not generalize entire groups of other people. Most people (not a generalization), regardless of religion, political leanings, gender (or transition thereof), race, or sexual orientation have principles. Most people just want to make sure their families are taken care of, maybe have some fun or go on vacation, and do good among their fellow humans. Yes, Kishkumen, even Mormons.

I am sorry, hagoth7, but whether you like it or not, there is a rich history of spying and invasion of privacy in Mormonism. I do not say this to condemn Mormons, but to point out that such policies, some of which remain today in the Church Handbook of Instructions, encourage people to inform on each other. I look forward to the day when such practices of spying and informing come to an end.

Does anyone recall that creepy story about Church security hunting down D. Michael Quinn? Man, that one gave me the shivers.


And O how rich a history it is! Even if I agreed with you about Dr. Quinn, and even if I fully believed John Dehlin's account, what we have here are two incidences. Even if we include some of the other recent political or activist events within the church (Kate K.), we would be at a total of, perhaps, less than a dozen.

O what a rich history of Hindenburg crashes! O what a rich history of ships called Titanic sinking!
_Doctor CamNC4Me
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Re: John Dehlin: A Spy Story

Post by _Doctor CamNC4Me »

Scenario #1 in Yahoo Bot's ethically challenged world:

Snitch talks to Target about his morally questionable behavior. Snitch is a trusted Source. Target divulges morally questionable behavior to Snitch. Snitch goes to Handler, and relays said information.

Who's at fault in Yahoo Bot's ethically challenged world?

- Doc
In the face of madness, rationality has no power - Xiao Wang, US historiographer, 2287 AD.

Every record...falsified, every book rewritten...every statue...has been renamed or torn down, every date...altered...the process is continuing...minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Ideology is always right.
_Kishkumen
_Emeritus
Posts: 21373
Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2008 10:00 pm

Re: John Dehlin: A Spy Story

Post by _Kishkumen »

Hey, Prester:

Two recommendations:

Read carefully.

Read the entire thread (see Maksutov's post on spying at BYU, etc. especially).

You're welcome,

Kishkumen
Last edited by Guest on Wed Oct 28, 2015 9:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Petition wasn’t meant to start a witch hunt as I’ve said 6000 times." ~ Hanna Seariac, LDS apologist
_Fence Sitter
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Re: John Dehlin: A Spy Story

Post by _Fence Sitter »

So what is it the "Strengthening Church Members Committee" does again?

The Strengthening Church Members Committee (SCMC) is a committee of general authorities of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS Church) who monitor the publications of church members for possible criticism of local and general leaders of the church. If criticism is found, the committee may forward information to local church authorities, who may bring charges of apostasy, which can result in excommunication.
"Any over-ritualized religion since the dawn of time can make its priests say yes, we know, it is rotten, and hard luck, but just do as we say, keep at the ritual, stick it out, give us your money and you'll end up with the angels in heaven for evermore."
_Kishkumen
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Re: John Dehlin: A Spy Story

Post by _Kishkumen »

Prester John should read your post, too, Fence Sitter.
"Petition wasn’t meant to start a witch hunt as I’ve said 6000 times." ~ Hanna Seariac, LDS apologist
_Prester John
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Re: John Dehlin: A Spy Story

Post by _Prester John »

Fence Sitter wrote:So what is it the "Strengthening Church Members Committee" does again?

The Strengthening Church Members Committee (SCMC) is a committee of general authorities of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS Church) who monitor the publications of church members for possible criticism of local and general leaders of the church. If criticism is found, the committee may forward information to local church authorities, who may bring charges of apostasy, which can result in excommunication.


From where did you copy/paste this?

Kishkumen, a flurry of questions:

Do you think all Mormons are generally below your intelligence level?
Do you hate Mormons?
Do you have any idea what it's like to be a modern Mormon?
Do you realize your black/white generalizations of Mormons are completely foreign to modern Mormons?
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