John Dehlin: A Spy Story

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

Scenario #2 in Yahoo Bot's ethically challenged world:

Brother Hyram calls Brother Smith. They both live in a One Party Consent state. Brother Hyram called Brother Smith at the behest of a General Authority due to the latter's concern over some rumors Brother Smith is doubting the Brethren and, as rumor has it, is secretly Gay. Brother Hyram records Brother Smith's heartbreaking confession in which he confides that he's not sure the Church is true and in the course of struggling with his sexual identity has committed a same-sex sin. Brother Hyram reports back to the General Authority with his notes and a recording of Brother Smith's confession. The General Authority directs a Court of Love in which Brother Smith is eventually excommunicated.

Who's at fault in Yahoo Bot's ethically challenged world?

- Doc

[_Kishkumen]

Kishkumen, a flurry of questions:

Do you think all Mormons are generally below your intelligence level?
Do you hate Mormons?
Do you have any idea what it's like to be a modern Mormon?
Do you realize your black/white generalizations of Mormons are completely foreign to modern Mormons?

Evidently you refused to take my first piece of advice.

[_Prester John]

Evidently you refused to take my first piece of advice.

I have read the thread.

You don't have to answer my questions--though I didn't think they were that difficult to answer.

[_Kishkumen]

I have read the thread.

You don't have to answer my questions--though I didn't think they were that difficult to answer.

Yes, you read it. You just failed to read it carefully. That is the most important part. If you had read it carefully, then you wouldn't have asked those questions, and that would save me the trouble of answering questions you should be able to answer yourself.

[_Fence Sitter]

From where did you copy/paste this?

I would tell you but they are watching me.

[_Jesse Pinkman]

Boy do I ever disagree. Fully and completely.

People actually do have principles, believe it or not.

I'm not surprised that you disagree. However, it has been my observation that LDS members lack courage to challenge their leaders and the stupid policies they promote. If what you were saying were true in the least, then the LDS Church would have done away with this stupid excommunication process long ago. It doesn't take any effort to kick someone out of your church. The fact the LDS Church engages in such ugly and nefarious process like this speaks volumes about the inbred stupidity within the organization and those that are leading it.

In this case, I have to agree with Tobin. It is not that LDS people lack principles. It's just that those principles can be overridden by the demands of their LDS Church membership. It simply is a fact that narcing on fellow members is a policy of the LDS Church. And we can add that long list of instances of spying from earlier in the 20th century that Brother Maksutov reminded us of.

I am sorry, hagoth7, but whether you like it or not, there is a rich history of spying and invasion of privacy in Mormonism. I do not say this to condemn Mormons, but to point out that such policies, some of which remain today in the Church Handbook of Instructions, encourage people to inform on each other. I look forward to the day when such practices of spying and informing come to an end.

Does anyone recall that creepy story about Church security hunting down D. Michael Quinn? Man, that one gave me the shivers.

This is one element of the LDS culture that I have always found sick and distasteful. In the end, I think that it encourages people to lie, to cover things up, and to worry more about appearances than anything else. This type of behavior stems a lot of other ugliness that is not Christ-like in the least.

I am so sorry that Dehlin had to go through that.

What happened with Quinn?

[_hagoth7]

From where did you copy/paste this?

I would tell you but they are watching me.

That's actually pretty funny.

Seriously though, I would be interested in an answer to PJ's question.

[_Tobin]

I think it is interesting you failed to cite this supposed teaching of St Paul. But let's suppose for fun that he said all that. Does it even sound like a good Christian principle to encourage members to spy on each other to discover their sins just to report them to your leaders so they have cause to excommunicate them? I don't know about you Bot, but that seems like a rather nasty organization to be associated with.

You don't know anything about my associations. Plus, you're a demonstrated idiot. In any event, I don't think evidence-gathering from public statements is "spying". I do it when I hire somebody, when somebody's suing my clients, etc. I fired an expert witness in psychiatry when it was brought to my attention that he posted his experiences with orgies on his Facebook page. Is that "spying?"

Spying is secretly recording a conversation without telling somebody, among other things.

I'll just note you still have provided no citation of this supposed teaching by St Paul. And it seems I struck a nerve since you have instead just decided to attack me personally.

I think it is hilarious that you have decided to state there is no spying going on in face of the evidence of what seems to have happened to John Dehlin. And as others have pointed out, this isn't an isolated incident. But for fun, let's say it is. Do you agree with their behavior and what they did to him? Is this what due process in the LDS Church should look like?

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

Seriously though, I would be interested in an answer to PJ's question.

I don't know if I'm just a weapons grade autist, but you do know how to google, no? If not, just highlight the text, right click, and choose the "search Google" option.

- Doc

[_Fence Sitter]

Seriously though, I would be interested in an answer to PJ's question.

I don't know if I'm just a weapons grade autist, but you do know how to google, no? If not, just highlight the text, right click, and choose the "search Google" option.

- Doc

Now Doc., don't be giving away all my secrets.