The Apostasy of the LDS Church

[_Tsuzuki]

If baptism means so much to someone, they can get baptized in another church.

Yeah. It's not like it's an important ordinance that needs to be done with authority or anything. If I recall correctly, when Joseph Smith asked God about, God told him that any church would do.

[_Philo Sofee]

I honestly think we are all missing something......no, I have no idea what it is, but think this through with me for a sec here. There is no way even the brethren are this frickin stupid. They *can't* be, evolution refutes it. So, it must be something else. I suspect it has to do with money. Now behind the scenes I have read they have already had lawsuits that they have LOST. This if multiplied by the thousands or higher can get into BILLIONS of bucks man. The fallout of having a policy like this is some collatoral damage of losing some members (they were lukewarm anyway they probably reason), while if we actually act like what Christ wants us to, it's gonna cost us billions, and the mall being built and such, we cannot afford that, so better to give ourselves a black eye, than lawsuits sink the ship. This is my speculation only. I have seen estimates where the income annually is from between 6 billion and 60 billion. When it gets to be that huge of an amount, souls, truth, reality become secondary and not worth worrying about. It has to be SOMETHING about the MONEY man.....It's not stupidity, it's survival mode that this policy was implemented for. Yes its gruesome, but if Christ would actually lead these yokels instead of sit in yonder heavens sipping his hot morning coffee chuckling, they wouldn't have become this biased, prejudiced, and bigoted in the first place would they have? It's going to be something about the money, I can almost guarantee it.

[_Res Ipsa]

I honestly think we are all missing something......no, I have no idea what it is, but think this through with me for a sec here. There is no way even the brethren are this frickin stupid. They *can't* be, evolution refutes it. So, it must be something else. I suspect it has to do with money. Now behind the scenes I have read they have already had lawsuits that they have LOST. This if multiplied by the thousands or higher can get into BILLIONS of bucks man. The fallout of having a policy like this is some collatoral damage of losing some members (they were lukewarm anyway they probably reason), while if we actually act like what Christ wants us to, it's gonna cost us billions, and the mall being built and such, we cannot afford that, so better to give ourselves a black eye, than lawsuits sink the ship. This is my speculation only. I have seen estimates where the income annually is from between 6 billion and 60 billion. When it gets to be that huge of an amount, souls, truth, reality become secondary and not worth worrying about. It has to be SOMETHING about the MONEY man.....It's not stupidity, it's survival mode that this policy was implemented for. Yes its gruesome, but if Christ would actually lead these yokels instead of sit in yonder heavens sipping his hot morning coffee chuckling, they wouldn't have become this biased, prejudiced, and bigoted in the first place would they have? It's going to be something about the money, I can almost guarantee it.

Can you give me a behind the scenes cause number?

[_Philo Sofee]

No he doesn't have a point. Everyone will be baptized under Mormonism. The question is only when.

Yep. It's just another way of blowing off concern for others. "Hey, we can totally treat that person like s***, because it will all be made right at some future date. Great, ain't it?"

Proxy baptism is no excuse for asshole policies. Every life matters now. Yours is a callous rationalization.

And I suspect this is all the defenders will ever be able to come up with. Who would in their right mind even *want* to defend this?! I am more everyday quite seriously GLAD I have skipped out of apologetics all together. WHEW! YEY ME!

[_Philo Sofee]

I honestly think we are all missing something......no, I have no idea what it is, but think this through with me for a sec here. There is no way even the brethren are this frickin stupid. They *can't* be, evolution refutes it. So, it must be something else. I suspect it has to do with money. Now behind the scenes I have read they have already had lawsuits that they have LOST. This if multiplied by the thousands or higher can get into BILLIONS of bucks man. The fallout of having a policy like this is some collatoral damage of losing some members (they were lukewarm anyway they probably reason), while if we actually act like what Christ wants us to, it's gonna cost us billions, and the mall being built and such, we cannot afford that, so better to give ourselves a black eye, than lawsuits sink the ship. This is my speculation only. I have seen estimates where the income annually is from between 6 billion and 60 billion. When it gets to be that huge of an amount, souls, truth, reality become secondary and not worth worrying about. It has to be SOMETHING about the MONEY man.....It's not stupidity, it's survival mode that this policy was implemented for. Yes its gruesome, but if Christ would actually lead these yokels instead of sit in yonder heavens sipping his hot morning coffee chuckling, they wouldn't have become this biased, prejudiced, and bigoted in the first place would they have? It's going to be something about the money, I can almost guarantee it.

Can you give me a behind the scenes cause number?

I don't recall any actual numbers, I just recall someone saying there have been lawsuits they have lost over this issue already. I have no idea if that is even true, but would it surprise us at all?

[_Tobin]

As you agree Kishkumen, the LDS Church (a man-made institution run by men) can have whatever policies they like. And I don't care what they teach about their authority. I think it is pretty clear they don't have god's authority and are only pretending.

[_Tobin]

Yeah. It's not like it's an important ordinance that needs to be done with authority or anything. If I recall correctly, when Joseph Smith asked God about, God told him that any church would do.

And I think that is important too, but I think you should ask yourself this: If they really had god's authority, would they behave like this?

[_Philo Sofee]

Yeah. It's not like it's an important ordinance that needs to be done with authority or anything. If I recall correctly, when Joseph Smith asked God about, God told him that any church would do.

And I think that is important too, but I think you should ask yourself this: If they really had god's authority, would they behave like this?

For once I agree with Tobin. In my meager reading of history, it seems to me that whenever something this insipidly stupid on the face of it is used or implemented it is due to attempts to keep from losing HUGE amounts of money, whether an individual or corporation or church or whatever. Somehow, somewhere, there is gigantic money involved behind the scenes of which we are not privvy. I can almost smell it man.

[_Tsuzuki]

Yeah. It's not like it's an important ordinance that needs to be done with authority or anything. If I recall correctly, when Joseph Smith asked God about, God told him that any church would do.

And I think that is important too, but I think you should ask yourself this: If they really had god's authority, would they behave like this?

I'm not a huge fan of their god, so probably. (He did order the slaughter of children. Denying them baptisms is consistent with that.) But here I'm speaking from a believer's perspective.

[_Kishkumen]

I would recommend this thread to you, Philo Sofee:

http://mormondiscussions.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?p=925469#p925469

It is not clear to the lawyers of the board what the exact legal threat is that would incur such huge monetary losses. And, no one is able to find a case in which a church was successfully sued for parental alienation.