Bill Reel on Mormon Stories

[_Kishkumen]

One more thing--I found it odd that Brian would send Bill Reel a copy of Brian's response to Bill's podcast and then tell Bill that Brian would not publish his response if Bill would take down his podcast.

Is that the way scholarship is supposed to work?

Well, no, but this is not about scholarship. Scholarship is placed in service of apologetics for Brian. I don't say this to discount the entirety of his work, but to point out that, at the end of the day, he is going to do what it takes to defend the current position of the LDS Church.

I think it is fair to say that one can read Jacob in the Book of Mormon to be saying that polygamy may be required in some circumstances but not others. Fair enough. But, I don't give a crap. Polygamy is just bad stuff. As soon as a large enough group begins practicing polygamy, then there will be a dangerous inequality in access to eligible spouses and all of the problems of violence and social instability that go with that.

Let's not choose ill-advised, theologically driven marital experiments over good science. Bad things are known to happen when young people have no prospects for pairing up with a partner. The LDS Church repeatedly chooses to interfere in partnering with disastrous results. It has done so with polygamy. It has done (and continues to do) so in the case of homosexuality--either by telling gays to marry straights or just telling them they have to be celibate.

The simple fact is that the Adam and Eve story is not a literal anthropological template for all human relationships approved by deity. Nor are the marital arrangements of Abraham, David, or Solomon. Joseph Smith's polygamy was a mistake, and no amount of ignorant ecclesiastical meddling in the sex lives of LDS people is going to rectify the situation. The LDS Church should just drop polygamy as a doctrine and move on. Let the post-mortem polygamy hopes of leaders of the Church yield to faith that God will work it all out in the end.

[_sock puppet]

What struck me is how this account is diametrically opposed to the hyper-animated public persona put on by Brian Hales about how all he wants people to do is have the evidence so it can be discussed, and people are free to come to different conclusions.

How many times have I heard him say that . . .?

I think he honestly believed he was all about that. But, he drank the Kool Aid. He has a deep and abiding conviction that the facts will support his spiritual testimony. This means that whatever he finds has to be viewed, in his opinion, in a faith-supporting light. If Joseph married other men's wives, it must have been for godly reasons. If he married a 15 year old girl, godly reasons. If he lied to Emma and the church, ditto.

The problem is that the whole system of polygamy as Joseph practiced it was rotten to the core. It was just another means of establishing a hierarchy that would leech off of the average members and aggrandize the few. There is nothing enlightened or godly about it. Take the sex out of it, and it is still a huge stain on Joseph Smith's career and the foundations of Mormonism. Any man who would steal his follower's wives is the kind of brigand who should be ejected from a community, not made its leader.

And I think most of the TBMs today that give JSJr and BY passes on it would be abhorred and refuse to participate if the LDS church today reintroduced it. I think many of today's TBMs would not believe god wanted them to do that, but would continue to profess that god must have wanted JSJr, BY, etc. to do it. That baffles me, the pass that they give to JSJr in particular no matter how much dirty laundry keeps being found in the historical records.

[_manmormon]

It might bring me back, polygamy at least addresses the animal within man. Current Church operating procedure is to suggest that it isn't or shouldn't be there

[_DBMORMON]

Thank you Tom.

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Bill says his content was removed some time ago (3 months), only he didn't notice until recently. What did he say specifically that merited his content being pulled?

Where is the line exactly? He hasn't gone full apostate.

That is the question of the day? Bill Reel here by the way. One member insinuated that it was because I publicly spoke ill of FAIR, but I dared him to find that. I would welcome a full explanation and not the well crafted PR statement on their page.

[Guest]

Bill is a good guy. He doesn't fare well in the internet environment as he gets his feelings hurt with criticism. That's what he gets for posting in his own name.

Actually Bob your only partially right. I don't handle well when the criticisms become that of a personal nature. You seem very quick to go that direction and seem unable to discern the difference. To back that up, how many times have you been warned on that board?

In terms of handling criticism of the substance of my argument, I think I do quite well. For those who take Bob at his word feel free to browse my Facebook page to see that I am happy to interact on the argument. when people call names or refuse to address questions then they are booted.

You really can do much better Bob, I have faith in you.

[_DBMORMON]

My respect for Bill has increased after listening to this and realizing that he is putting his integrity on the line to see if one can publicly oppose this ugly policy. His time/experience with FAIR and obviously being declared an enemy of FAIR puts him in a unique position to really test this. Is unquestioning obedience to anything said/done by the FP/Q12 required or is there some line in the sand between a policy and doctrine?

Bill I had a rough start with you and held a poor opinion of your efforts ... yes, much respect for being willing to put it all on the line and take this stand.

Thank you!

no problem. I m glad you have come around. lol

[_DBMORMON]

One more thing--I found it odd that Brian would send Bill Reel a copy of Brian's response to Bill's podcast and then tell Bill that Brian would not publish his response if Bill would take down his podcast.

Is that the way scholarship is supposed to work?

Another really good question.
Bill

[_cwald]

I thought it was a good interview. Kind of gets to the heart of the matter...the church cannot and will not tolerate the Bill Reels of the church. There is no middle way. The church lives and dies on AUTHORITY, and you cannot criticize the Q15 even if the criticism is true. How can anyone not call this a cult?

I've been trying to tell Bill this for years, ever since the leadership burst my bubble and ran my ass out.

[_DBMORMON]

I thought it was a good interview. Kind of gets to the heart of the matter...the church cannot and will not tolerate the Bill Reels of the church. There is no middle way. The church lives and dies on AUTHORITY, and you cannot criticize the Q15 even if the criticism is true. How can anyone not call this a cult?

I've been trying to tell Bill this for years, ever since the leadership burst my bubble and ran my ass out.

to present I have never felt that Church headquarters has told my local leaders anything. Until that changes I am left only to assume that are not trying to reign me in.

[_consiglieri]

Hi, Bill!

Was there anything about what happened with you and Brian Hales and/or FAIR that didn't make it into the Mormon Stories interview that you would be willing to share here?