Bill Reel on Mormon Stories

[_Yong Xi]

Now, what does it mean to nuance faith?

A nuanced faith is faith some church intellectuals cling to when the Good Ship Zion starts sinking. They play like Mormonism is complex, and to understand it properly, one must have the appropriate education and IQ. (It helps to have a legal background.)

They are also the members who are described as having a "deep understanding" of the gospel, although none of these members seem to be able to explain how "deep understanding" differs from the normal understanding lesser members have.

It also helps to be an Egyptologist, for without this, one cannot fully understand the mysteries of the Book of Abraham.

Good spelling and grammar are also prerequisites.

A nuanced faith is the kind of faith Yahoo Bot has.

Most of us here will never have a nuanced faith, but at least we can see through it.

[_DBMORMON]

Now, what does it mean to nuance faith?

A nuanced faith is faith some church intellectuals cling to when the Good Ship Zion starts sinking. They play like Mormonism is complex, and to understand it properly, one must have the appropriate education and IQ. (It helps to have a legal background.)

They are also the members who are described as having a "deep understanding" of the gospel, although none of these members seem to be able to explain how "deep understanding" differs from the normal understanding lesser members have.

It also helps to be an Egyptologist, for without this, one cannot fully understand the mysteries of the Book of Abraham.

Good spelling and grammar are also prerequisites.

A nuanced faith is the kind of faith Yahoo Bot has.

Most of us here will never have a nuanced faith, but at least we can see through it.

Lol

[_consiglieri]

I don't think Bill even knows who these two dudes might be,

Bill wouldn't even know who Peter and Jeremiah are?

Why so condescending?

[_palerobber]

In terms of revelation, Bill thinks a prophet should be a juke-box fortuneteller rather than somebody like Jeremiah or St. Peter, so, no I can't give you juke-box fortunes as examples [of revelations from President Monson].

are you talking about the same Jeremiah who prophesied, "I see a seething pot; and the face thereof is toward the north. Then the LORD said unto me, Out of the north an evil shall break forth upon all the inhabitants of the land. For, lo, I will call all the families of the kingdoms of the north, saith the LORD; and they shall come, and they shall set every one his throne at the entering of the gates of Jerusalem" ?

are you talking about the same St. Peter who "fell into a trance, And saw heaven opened, and a certain vessel descending unto him, as it had been a great sheet knit at the four corners, and let down to the earth: Wherein were all manner of fourfooted beasts of the earth, and wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls of the air. And there came a voice to him, Rise, Peter; kill, and eat." ?

Yes, indeed. However, I don't think Bill even knows who these two dudes might be, so he couldn't even swing at a softball. You are a swift one, to be sure.

you seem to be claiming it was a trick question all along, but it's not at all clear that you aren't just a monkey flinging crap.

[_DBMORMON]

In terms of revelation, Bill thinks a prophet should be a juke-box fortuneteller rather than somebody like Jeremiah or St. Peter, so, no I can't give you juke-box fortunes as examples [of revelations from President Monson].

are you talking about the same Jeremiah who prophesied, "I see a seething pot; and the face thereof is toward the north. Then the LORD said unto me, Out of the north an evil shall break forth upon all the inhabitants of the land. For, lo, I will call all the families of the kingdoms of the north, saith the LORD; and they shall come, and they shall set every one his throne at the entering of the gates of Jerusalem" ?

are you talking about the same St. Peter who "fell into a trance, And saw heaven opened, and a certain vessel descending unto him, as it had been a great sheet knit at the four corners, and let down to the earth: Wherein were all manner of fourfooted beasts of the earth, and wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls of the air. And there came a voice to him, Rise, Peter; kill, and eat." ?

Yes, indeed. However, I don't think Bill even knows who these two dudes might be, so he couldn't even swing at a softball. You are a swift one, to be sure.

you seem to be claiming it was a trick question all along, but it's not at all clear that you aren't just a monkey flinging s***.

I would bet on the latter.

[_consiglieri]

It appears Brian Hales has posted a veiled response to Bill's interview on Mormon Stories.

http://josephsmithspolygamy.org/like-a- ... f-the-sea/

The last paragraph is inspiring:

The Savior also admonished: “Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you.” This seems like good counsel, and I think I will try to follow it.

Slightly ironic given Bill's accounts of how Brian behaved.

Maybe Brian is turning over a new leaf . . .

[_consiglieri]

In light of the tags Brian Hales put on his post, the connection with Bill Reel's interview by John Dehlin may be more than speculative.

Tags: apologetics, apologist, Bill Reel, brian hales, FairMormon, John Dehlin, Joseph Smith, Mormon Stories Podcast, plural marriage, Polygamy, Zelph on the Shelf

[_consiglieri]

Which is kind of funny, considering how Brian's opening paragraph suggests he doesn't read or listen to these types of things at all, but that he was told so by a friend who does.

And that several weeks ago.

Several weeks ago I was speaking with a friend who follows some of the websites, blogs, and chat rooms where the comments are primarily antagonistic toward the Church. He mentioned that two of the topics frequently discussed are the works of FairMormon and Brian Hales.

[_fetchface]

I find it interesting but not surprising that Bill was erased from FAIR history after his podcast suggesting that prophets could possibly be deceived by false revelation.

This is a huge problem in Mormon epistemology. Anyone who has spent any time in the church knows that a crucial part of Mormon belief is accepting that promptings of the spirit are a reliable way to know truth. But it is also believed that Satan can convincingly fake the spirit (else how do we explain when people go off the reservation?).

These two ideas are in no way compatible. This is a textbook case of doublethink and it sits at the heart of Mormon epistemology.

Pointing this out is the most threatening thing to Mormon belief, and this is essentially what Bill did in that podcast (and what the race + priesthood essay does as well).

Deep down, the FAIR guys are scared of this idea. They've got nothing to counter it or they wouldn't feel like they need to erase people from history for pointing it out. The way FAIR is behaving here is not the way people behave when they are arguing from a position of strength.

[_suniluni2]

This is a huge problem in Mormon epistemology. Anyone who has spent any time in the church knows that a crucial part of Mormon belief is accepting that promptings of the spirit are a reliable way to know truth. But it is also believed that Satan can convincingly fake the spirit (else how do we explain when people go off the reservation?).

These two ideas are in no way compatible. This is a textbook case of doublethink and it sits at the heart of Mormon epistemology.

Pointing this out is the most threatening thing to Mormon belief, and this is essentially what Bill did in that podcast (and what the race + priesthood essay does as well).

Totally true. Do you happen to have any references on Satan being able to fake the spirit? I had this discussion with someone where I pointed out that others such as heaven's gate followers, jeffs people, even terrorists, have peaceful, joyful, "good" feelings with regard to the their beliefs and conduct, and that because of that, I couldn't accept feelings or emotions as being indicative or a way to confirm truth. All he could say was, "well, those people's feelings are fake". I think he may have said something about Satan counterfeiting those feelings, but I can't remember. I know I've heard others say that.

Another important instance of doublethink, speaking of race and priesthood, is the teaching that prophets won't lead us astray. Not only that, but that they *can't* lead us astray, the lord would not allow it. Then we have several prophets allowing a doctrine of racial discrimination and now the church doesn't know why we followed it. So several prophets have led us astray in that regard yet no intervention by the lord. This should allow for protest and dialogue with leadership but it's still a one-way street, leaders lead and followers follow, dissent is punished.