Joseph Smith's most breathtaking lie.

[_mentalgymnast]

There were a lot of players active at the time that Joseph was being accused of moral bankruptcy in Nauvoo. It is difficult using primary sources to pin down what really was going on. Some of the sources are antagonistic. Some are not. Where do you draw the line between what can be trusted as 'the truth' and what is not? For example, are John C. Bennett and Sarah Brotherton to be trusted? When is William Law to be trusted and when is he not? The Fosters? And so forth.

Regards,
MG

When is JSJr to be trusted? and WHY?

Do you see answering a question(s) with a question as an effective strategy?

I've seen this more than once. Apparently there is something being accomplished in choosing to approach questions being asked through this form of circumvention?

I believe that the links I provided show that there was more going on than meets the eye at first glance. One little quote that Zeezrom posted that is used over and over again to prove...something?

When one reads the surrounding pages around the quote it doesn't take long to see that things are a bit more involved/messy than simple and straightforward.

Regards,
MG

[_sock puppet]

Everything that JSJr touched in his life became messy.

[_cwald]

There were a lot of players active at the time that Joseph was being accused of moral bankruptcy in Nauvoo. It is difficult using primary sources to pin down what really was going on. Some of the sources are antagonistic. Some are not. Where do you draw the line between what can be trusted as 'the truth' and what is not? For example, are John C. Bennett and Sarah Brotherton to be trusted? When is William Law to be trusted and when is he not? The Fosters? And so forth.

Regards,
MG

It doesn't change the fact that he lied, blatantly lied, in front of 1000s of people as explained in the OP.

[_mentalgymnast]

Everything that JSJr touched in his life became messy.

There would be a whole lot of active/believing members of the CofJCofLDS that would beg to differ.

I suppose my questions may remain unanswered.

Things are usually a bit more complicated/involved than what we might seem to think when we are given teeny weeny little soundbites without context. And even then it's difficult to get a handle on complete context.

Hey, I'm not disappointing Zeezrom.

Predictable, right?

Regards,
MG

[_Darth J]

It's curious that Joseph Smith would claim that the Nauvoo Expositor committed libel by saying that he had multiple wives. You know, since it's so unclear whether he denied having multiple wives.

Now if someone were seriously wondering whether Joseph Smith denied having multiple wives, what he would do is look at multiple sources, like the Nauvoo City council minutes, and his letter to Governor Ford, and his hiding plural marriages from Emma, and so on, and then see if this statement attributed to him is consistent with other sources. And he might even admit it's a moot point whether this specific statement was made, since there's cumulative evidence from other sources that independently establish Joseph Smith's lying.

But that's a person who was serious. Mentalgymnast has excluded himself from that category.

[_Darth J]

Everything that JSJr touched in his life became messy.

There would be a whole lot of active/believing members of the CofJCofLDS that would beg to differ.

So what?

[_Sethbag]

Everything that JSJr touched in his life became messy.

There would be a whole lot of active/believing members of the CofJCofLDS that would beg to differ.

I suppose my questions may remain unanswered.

Things are usually a bit more complicated/involved than what we might seem to think when we are given teeny weeny little soundbites without context. And even then it's difficult to get a handle on complete context.

Hey, I'm not disappointing Zeezrom.

Predictable, right?

Regards,
MG

Yes, MG, the Nauvoo/Kirtland/Missouri circus had a lot more actors in the troupe than just Joseph Smith. But he was the undisputed ringleader. For Heaven's sake, in Nauvoo he made himself the mayor, a judge, the postmaster (I think?), the registrar, land seller, business proprietor, and he even created his own little fake army and appointed himself Lieutenant General, a rank which was not even held at that time by the West Point graduates who lead the United States Army at the time. He had his paws in everything. Trying to dilute the criticisms of the shenanigans by pointing out that others were involved too is kind of missing the whole point.

It's like trying to deflect criticism of Nauvoo polygamy by pointing out that William Clayton and Heber C. Kimball practiced it too.

But, in keeping with the circus metaphor, the show must go on, right?

[_cwald]

There would be a whole lot of active/believing members of the CofJCofLDS that would beg to differ.

So what?

Yeah. This is the "WTF" moment of the thread.

[_mentalgymnast]

It's curious that Joseph Smith would claim that the Nauvoo Expositor committed libel by saying that he had multiple wives. You know, since it's so unclear whether he denied having multiple wives.

Now if someone were seriously wondering whether Joseph Smith denied having multiple wives, what he would do is look at multiple sources, like the Nauvoo City council minutes, and his letter to Governor Ford, and his hiding plural marriages from Emma, and so on, and then see if this statement attributed to him is consistent with other sources. And he might even admit it's a moot point whether this specific statement was made, since there's cumulative evidence from other sources that independently establish Joseph Smith's lying.

But that's a person who was serious. Mentalgymnast has excluded himself from that category.

Hi Darth,

I don't think I can be quoted as saying that Joseph Smith didn't actively pursue secretive measures in Nauvoo in order to regulate the practice of polygamy to a restricted group of people. That being said, I assert again...as I did earlier...that there was a lot of stuff going on during that time that presents a rather muddled picture to look at these many years later.

Regards,
MG

[_zeezrom]

Everything that JSJr touched in his life became messy.

Stones that roll down mountains really do make messes.