MD&D Thread: Mormon Prophet Harold B. Lee said this???

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MD&D Thread: Mormon Prophet Harold B. Lee said this???

Post by _Polygamy-Porter »

A thread was started on yonder board titled "Prophet Harold B Lee on the disabled and race" by the poster VideoGameJunkie.

In the thread he questions the quote from the late Mormon prophet Harold B. Lee:
On yonder board, VideoGameJunkie wrote:This is what prophet Harold B Lee said about the disabled and different race people. Is this okay for him to have said? "This privilege of obtaining a mortal body on this earth is seemingly so priceless that those in the spirit world, even though unfaithful or not valiant, were undoubtedly permitted to take mortal bodies although under penalty of racial or physical or nationalistic limitations." What kind of prophet from the 20th century talks like that?


An interesting reply by a poster(Jeanne) who claims to be disabled.. the mental gymnastics she goes through to keep her garmies on...
Ouch. For those of us who have disabilities, no matter what race we are, this is heartbreaking.


and

Yet we also hear a contradictory teaching on this topic. I'm sure everyone has heard the stories of disabled people being told they helped Michael cast Lucifer out of heaven in their patriarchal blessings.


I did here about that..this is why this quote above from Harold B. Lee really through me for loop. I was told that we we valiant and we chose to be tested..


Mormonism is such a mind FAAACCCKK
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Re: MD&D Thread: Mormon Prophet Harold B. Lee said this???

Post by _sock puppet »

In his 1973 book entitled Decisions for Successful Living, Harold B Lee wrote this, Chapter 19 of that book (provided in full lest the TBMs would claim we were cherry picking and taking this out of context). He was the 'prophet' when the book was publishedd
19

Youth of a Noble Birthright

We have heard much in the world community about so-called master races. The feeling of superiority in the minds of the leaders of these self-acclaimed superior groups who have campaigned for world domination has plunged the world into mighty and terrible world conflicts. The mystery of their fancied superiority has now been very largely exploded by the force of arms of the opposing nations they sought to conquer. The arrogance assumed by these master races, so called, has engendered the most bitter race prejudice in the world's history. There are other forces sweeping this and other countries that would break down all social barriers as between races and that would nullify existing laws prohibiting legal marriage between certain races. There are still others who place apparently erroneous interpretations on the declaration to be found in the opening paragraphs of the Declaration of Independence to the effect that "All men are created equal." It is well that you as the youth of our land have from the fountain of unfailing truth, the Church of Jesus Christ, the truths of the scriptures concerning these important problems that involve the relationship of human beings to each other and to God, our Heavenly Father.

Father of All Spirits

How many races are there? Most scientists have divided humanity into five groups: The white, the black, the brown, the yellow and the red races. Others have grouped the brown, yellow and red races as "subgroups" of a single race. The scriptures have taught us that God, our Heavenly Father, is the "Father of the spirits of all men" and that when we pass from this life our spirits "whether they be good or evil, are taken home to God who gave (us) life." (Ecclesiastes 12:7; Alma 40:11.) Thus, by the teachings of the scriptures, all mankind are made one great family. Furthermore, we are given to understand that all who live in mortality, if they would perfect their genealogical research, could trace their ancestry back to Adam and Eve, our first earthly parents in the Garden of Eden, through Noah and his family, who were the only living persons on the earth after the flood. Very few researchers in the genealogical field go far in their work until they find widely separated persons of varying nationalities with the same ancestors on the genealogical chart. All of this points unmistakably to the correctness of the scriptural teachings.

Some years ago there appeared in a leading magazine an interesting article on this subject written by a nationally known authority on sociology. Here is a quotation from that article:

"Practically all scientific students agree that all men who live, or ever have lived, were derived from some very early ancestral stock. . . . Where this parent stock had its abode we are not certain; but modern scientific opinion tends to believe that it was on the high central plateau of Asia." (May I pause to call your attention to the fact that it is the commonly accepted belief that Mt. Ararat, on which Noah's ark rested after the flood, was located in Western Asia.) "From this center, the great primary distribution of man as we know him took place. Driven by the pressure of increasing population, one contingent after another, made its way into one or another of the great habitation centers of the world. . . . The groups proceeded to develop different physical traits which were characteristic of each group respectively. . . . This result was due partly to the selective influence of their physical environment, and partly to the chance peculiarities of hereditary factors with which each group was endowed from the beginning. Thus were formed the five basic human faces recognized by the common man all over the world." (Henry Pratt Fairchild, Harpers, October, 1944.)

Scientists have done well in their studies to have arrived at such conclusions seemingly so much in harmony with the teachings of the scriptures, but there are other factors that affect the question of race and equality that only those who have faith in the revealed word of God may take into account.

"Known unto God are all his works from the beginning," (Acts 15:18.) but only by his revelation to us, such as the following to Abraham, may we know of these things: "Now the Lord had shown unto me, Abraham, the intelligences that were organized before the world was; and among all these there were many of the noble and great ones; and God saw these souls that they were good, and he stood in the midst of them, and he said: These I will make my rulers; for he stood among those that were spirits, and he saw that they were good; and he said unto me: Abraham, thou are one of them; thou wast chosen before thou wast born." (Abraham 3:22-23.)

No less a person than Peter who was so closely associated with the Master declared that Jesus also "was foreordained before the foundation of the world," (I Peter 1:20) even as Jesus himself prayed, "O Father, glorify thou me with . . . the glory which I had with thee before the world was." (John 17:5.)

The word of the Lord came also to Jeremiah the prophet saying that before he was born the Lord "sanctified (him) and ordained (him) a prophet unto the nations." (Jeremiah 1:5.) These and other similar scriptures make it plain that man existed in a spiritual condition before coming here to this earth and that in that pre-existence he had his free agency or right to choose. How could some of those spirits as seen by Abraham have become noble and great except by faithfulness to God's cause? How came God to choose Abraham or Jeremiah before they were born? If we had the complete answer to these questions, we would no doubt learn that they and others stood up valiantly with Michael and his angels when "there was war in heaven. . . . and Satan and his angels were cast out" of heaven for rebellion. (Rev. 12:7-12.)

Now I bring you another truth declared by a revelation to Moses as recorded in the scriptures.

"Remember the days of old, consider the years of many generations: . . . When the Most High divided to the nations their inheritance, when he separated the sons of Adam, he set the bounds of the people according to the number of the children of Israel. For the Lord's portion is his people; Jacob is the lot of his inheritance." (Deut. 32:7-9.)

Here several truths are clearly suggested. In the first place, the extent of God's temporal creations was determined by the number of spirits to come into mortality; the earth was to be divided into nations according to the number of the children of Jacob, or Israel, before she became a nation and a chosen lineage was to come through Jacob's posterity. Logically then we also must conclude that the end of this earth will not come until all these spirits who were designated as worthy of mortal bodies shall have been born into this world. In the Apostle Paul's sermon to the Athenians, he declared also that God "hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation." (Acts 17:26.) It was no doubt the prospect of coming into mortal bodies and thus being "added upon" that caused the stars of morning, or the spirit children of God, as we are told in the scriptures, to sing together and all the sons of God to shout for joy. (Job 38:4-7.)

There is no truth more plainly taught in the Gospel than that our condition in the next world will depend upon the kind of lives we live here. "All that are in the graves shall hear his voice, and shall come forth; they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation." (John 5:28-29.) Is it not just as reasonable to suppose that the conditions in which we now live have been determined by the kind of lives we lived in the pre-existent world of spirits? That the apostles understood this principle is indicated by their question to the Master when the man who was blind from his birth was healed of his blindness, "Master, who did sin, this man or his parents that he was born blind?" (John 9:2.) Now perhaps you will have a partial answer to some of your questions as to why, if God is a just Father, that some of his children are born of an enlightened race and in a time when the Gospel is upon the earth, while others are born of a heathen parentage in a benighted, backward country; and still others are born to parents who have the mark of a black skin with which the seed of Cain were cursed and whose descendants were to be denied the rights of the priesthood of God.

A Priceless Privilege

The privilege of obtaining a mortal body on this earth is seemingly so priceless that those in the spirit world, even though unfaithful or not valiant, [some] were undoubtedly permitted to take mortal bodies although under penalty of racial or physical or nationalistic limitations. Between the extremes of the "noble and the great" spirits, whom God would make his rulers, and the disobedient and the rebellious, who were cast out with Satan, there were obviously many spirits with varying degrees of faithfulness. May we not assume from these teachings that the progress and development we made as spirits have brought privileges and blessings here according to our faithfulness in the spirit world? Now don't be too hasty in your conclusions as to what conditions in mortality constitute the greater privileges. That condition in life which gives the greatest experience and opportunity for development is the one to be most desired and any one so privileged is most favored of God. It has been said that "a smooth sea never made a skillful mariner, neither do uninterrupted prosperity and success qualify for usefulness and happiness. The storms of adversity, like those of the ocean, rouse the faculties and excite the invention, prudence, skill and fortitude of the voyager. The mariners of ancient times, in bracing their minds to outward calamaties, acquired a loftiness of purpose and a moral heroism worth a lifetime of softness and security."

All Are Equal

All are equal in that they are the spirit children of God, and also equal in their right to free agency, as well as in the fact that all are made innocent of previous wrongs committed as they enter this world through the atonement of the Lord Jesus Christ. The Lord has told us that "Every spirit of man was innocent in the beginning; and God having redeemed man from the fall, men became again, in their infant state, innocent before God." (Doc. and Cov. 93:38.) Who knows but that many of those with seeming inequalities in this life, if they do everything possible with their limited opportunities, may not receive greater blessings than some of those rewarded by having been born to a noble lineage and to superior social and spiritual opportunities who fail to live up to their great privileges! The history of the Lord's dealings with his children is filled with incidents that indicate that many of those who are the "elect according to the covenant," or that are of the "chosen" of God to be born through the chosen lineage of the House of Israel or the Lord's "portion" in the pre-existent world, will fail of their callings because of their sins. The descendants of Jacob or Israel, through his twelve sons, have been scattered far and wide among the nations as a punishment because of their transgressions, but in this instance the punishment of Israel has been a blessing to the nations who have thereby received the rights belonging to Israel. It was through the lineage of Judah, one of the sons of Jacob, that the Savior was born. Most of the prophets of every dispensation since the days of Israel have been of the chosen lineage of Jacob through his twelve sons, and we are led to believe by the prophets of our own day that the vast majority of those who have received the Gospel are of the tribe of Ephraim. The Indians on the American continent are descendants of the tribes of Ephraim, Judah, and Manasseh, we are told by the Book of Mormon. (Omni 15-19; I Nephi 5:14-16.) Their dark skin was a curse put upon them because of their transgression, which in a day to come in their descendants will be lifted and they will become white and delightsome as they accept the Gospel and turn to the Lord.

Intermarriage with Other Races

Millions of souls have come into this world with the mark that was put upon Cain's posterity and have been denied the privileges of the priesthood and the fulness of the blessings of the Gospel. Concerning them one of our leaders has expressed this opinion: "I believe that race is the one through which it is ordained those spirits that were not valiant in the great rebellion in heaven should come; who, through their indifference or lack of integrity to righteousness, rendered themselves unworthy of the priesthood and its powers, and hence it is withheld from them to this day." (B. H. Roberts—Contributor, 6:297.) The seed of Cain has been separated from the rest of mankind from the beginning, but they are the children of God. They may become Church members without the priesthood, but a promise of hope has been given by a prophet in our day in these words: "The day will come when all that race will be redeemed and possess all the blessings which we now have." (Quoted from President Brigham Young in Wilford Woodruff, p. 351.)

We should manifest kindness and consideration for these our brothers and sisters who have been born into mortal bodies through the lineage of Cain, no doubt due to some disqualifications resulting from their conduct in the preexistence. Some of this race have become members of the Church and are setting examples of faith and devotion that all of us could well pattern after, despite the limitations of their privileges in the Church.

To impress the grave consequences and the seriousness of intermarriage as between those of different races and particularly with reference to intermarriage with the seed of Cain, President Brigham Young made this remark in an address before the legislature: ". . . that mark shall remain upon the seed of Cain until the seed of Abel shall be redeemed, and Cain shall not receive the priesthood until the time of that redemption. Any man having one drop of the seed of Cain in him cannot receive the priesthood. . . ." (Wilford Woodruff, page 351.) Surely no one of you who is an heir to a body of more favored lineage would knowingly intermarry with a race that would condemn your posterity to penalties that have been placed upon the seed of Cain by the judgments of God.

It might not be amiss likewise to urge upon you the most serious consideration of any question of your possible intermarriage with individuals of any other race than your own. No one of you with safety can defy the laws of heredity and the centuries of training that have developed strong racial characteristics and tendencies among the distinctive peoples of the earth and then expect to find a happy, congenial family relationship from such a union. The wisdom of experience fully demonstrates the importance of your marrying those of your own race and those with a similar background of customs and manners.

Foreordination

Now a further word about this matter of foreordination. The Prophet Joseph Smith taught that "Every man who has a calling to minister to the inhabitants of the world was ordained to that very purpose in the grand council of heaven before this world was." (Joseph Smith's Teachings, p. 365.) So likewise declared the Apostle Paul, "For whom he did foreknow . . . them he also called." (Romans 2:29-30.) But do not misunderstand that such a calling and such foreordination pre-determine what you must do. A prophet on this western continent has spoken plainly on this subject, "Being called and prepared from the foundation of the world, according to the foreknowledge of God on account of their exceeding faith and good works; in the first place being left to choose good or evil." (Alma 13:3.) This last passage makes the others preceding more understandable. God may have called and chosen men in the spirit world or in their first estate to do a certain work, but whether they will accept that calling here and magnify it by faithful service and good works while in mortality is a matter in which it is their right and privilege to exercise their free agency to choose good or evil.

But the Lord "requireth the heart and a willing mind; and the willing and obedient shall eat the good of the land of Zion in these last days." (Doc. and Cov. 64:34.) I fear there are many among us who because of their faithfulness in the spirit world were "called" to do a great work here, but like reckless spendthrifts they are exercising their free agency in riotous living and are losing their birthright and the blessings that were theirs had they proved faithful to their calling. Hence as the Lord has said, "there are many called but few are chosen," and then he gives us two reasons as to why his chosen and ordained fail of their blessings: First, because their hearts are set so much upon the things of this world, and second, they aspire so much to the honors of men that they do not learn that "the powers of heaven cannot be controlled nor handled only upon the principles of righteousness." (Doc. and Cov. 121:34-36.) All these have sinned "a very grievous sin, in that they are walking in darkness at noon-day." (Doc. and Cov. 95:5-6.)

You our youth of today are among the most illustrious spirits to be born into mortality in any age of the world. Yours is a noble heritage and a wonderful opportunity. May you join in the refrain of the rallying song of youth today:

"Holding aloft our colors, we march in the glorious dawn, O youth of the noble birthright, Carry on, Carry on, Carry on!" and be guided to fulfill your highest destiny.
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Re: MD&D Thread: Mormon Prophet Harold B. Lee said this???

Post by _SteelHead »

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Re: MD&D Thread: Mormon Prophet Harold B. Lee said this???

Post by _lostindc »

What an absolute piece of garbage
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Re: MD&D Thread: Mormon Prophet Harold B. Lee said this???

Post by _lostindc »

Is there a way to pin some of precious truths,such as the quote above?
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Re: MD&D Thread: Mormon Prophet Harold B. Lee said this???

Post by _Tobin »

Abraham Lincoln wrote:I will say then that I am not, nor ever have been in favor of bringing about in anyway the social and political equality of the white and black races - that I am not nor ever have been in favor of making voters or jurors of negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people; and I will say in addition to this that there is a physical difference between the white and black races which I believe will forever forbid the two races living together on terms of social and political equality. And inasmuch as they cannot so live, while they do remain together there must be the position of superior and inferior, and I as much as any other man am in favor of having the superior position assigned to the white race. I say upon this occasion I do not perceive that because the white man is to have the superior position the negro should be denied everything.


Abraham Lincoln wrote:Our republican system was meant for a homogeneous people. As long as blacks continue to live with the whites they constitute a threat to the national life. Family life may also collapse and the increase of mixed breed bastards may some day challenge the supremacy of the white man.
"You lack vision, but I see a place where people get on and off the freeway. On and off, off and on all day, all night.... Tire salons, automobile dealerships and wonderful, wonderful billboards reaching as far as the eye can see. My God, it'll be beautiful." -- Judge Doom
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Re: MD&D Thread: Mormon Prophet Harold B. Lee said this???

Post by _lostindc »

Tobin,

Did you really just compare a precious prophet of the lord from the 70s to a US president from the 1800s as if two wrongs make a right?
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Re: MD&D Thread: Mormon Prophet Harold B. Lee said this???

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lostindc wrote:Tobin,

Did you really just compare a precious prophet of the lord from the 70s to a US president from the 1800s as if two wrongs make a right?


I think they were both men that said stupid things which is typical for every man that has ever lived.
"You lack vision, but I see a place where people get on and off the freeway. On and off, off and on all day, all night.... Tire salons, automobile dealerships and wonderful, wonderful billboards reaching as far as the eye can see. My God, it'll be beautiful." -- Judge Doom
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Re: MD&D Thread: Mormon Prophet Harold B. Lee said this???

Post by _lostindc »

Tobin wrote:
lostindc wrote:Tobin,

Did you really just compare a precious prophet of the lord from the 70s to a US president from the 1800s as if two wrongs make a right?


I think they were both men that said stupid things which is typical for every man that has ever lived.


We are talking about a prophet of the lord that is discussing how individuals come from the preexistence and receive a certain type of body.

This is not just a mistake, this is a clear sign that Lee was likely a fraud and bigot. It will take a lot of mental gymnastics to dismiss this one...a lot
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Re: MD&D Thread: Mormon Prophet Harold B. Lee said this???

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lostindc wrote:We are talking about a prophet of the lord that is discussing how individuals come from the preexistence and receive a certain type of body.

This is not just a mistake, this is a clear sign that Lee was likely a fraud and bigot. It will take a lot of mental gymnastics to dismiss this one...a lot
We are? And you know he was a prophet of the lord exactly how? Did God whisper that was true to you while you were kneelling at your bed?

It seems to me he was just a man (and I'm pretty sure that is more likely true than your claim) spouting off with obviously idiotic comments about stuff he didn't have the first clue about. If we lived before, I certainly don't remember it so I can't verify anything this man claimed was true. And it sure seems like silly and pretty awful stuff. Now it is all very entertaining for people to claim this man was supposedly a prophet of God (whatever that means?!?) saying stupid stuff. However, unless and until you have some evidence of that (and that God told him all this whack'o stuff), I'll go with that being very unlikely and unbelievable nonsense.
"You lack vision, but I see a place where people get on and off the freeway. On and off, off and on all day, all night.... Tire salons, automobile dealerships and wonderful, wonderful billboards reaching as far as the eye can see. My God, it'll be beautiful." -- Judge Doom
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