The Brothers Bundy, Lafferty, and Mormon Myth

[Guest]

On another thread, mentalgymnast and Huckelberry are trying to convince malkie and others as to the value of religious myth.

Jon Krakauer has written an enlightening article on that very subject in probing the motivations behind the Oregon Wildlife Refuge takeover.

Krakauer leaves no doubt that the Mormon myths are alive and well in the West and that the same nonsense that motivates the Bundys of today is that which motivated the Laffertys a generation ago.

As a glimpse into what kind of behavior a literal belief in the myths of Mormonism can lead to, he cites passages from his non-fiction work "Under the Banner of Heaven".

Dan Lafferty isn't reticent about describing exactly what happened on July 24, 1984. He says that shortly after noon, he, Ron, and the two drifters who had been traveling with them, Ricky Knapp and Chip Carnes, drove to the apartment of his youngest brother, Allen, in American Fork.

Inside the brick duplex he found his 15-month-old niece, Erica, standing in her crib, smiling at him. "I spoke to her for a minute," Lafferty recalls. "I told her, 'I'm not sure what this is all about, but apparently it's God's will that you leave this world; perhaps we can talk about it later.'" And then he killed her with a ten-inch boning knife.

After dispatching Erica, he calmly walked into the kitchen and used the same knife to kill the baby's mother. He insists, very convincingly, that he has never felt any regret for the deed, or shame.

Like his older brother, Ron, Dan Lafferty was brought up as a pious Mormon. "I've always been interested in God and the Kingdom of God," he says. "It's been the center of my focus since I was a young child." And he is certain God intended for him to kill Brenda and Erica Lafferty: "It was like someone had taken me by the hand that day and led me comfortably through everything that happened. Ron had received a revelation from God that these lives were to be taken. I was the one who was supposed to do it. And if God wants something to be done, it will be done. You don't want to offend Him by refusing to do His work."

These murders are shocking for a host of reasons, but no aspect of the crimes is more disturbing than Lafferty's complete and determined absence of remorse.

There was no remorse, of course, because the Laffertys truly believed in Brigham Young's Mormon myth of Blood Atonement in the Mormon myth that God's will took precedence over the laws of man.

The main point here is that, while MG and others may claim that these myths are in Mormonism's past, they are still motivating highly visible behaviors that the public attributes to Mormonism. Worse yet, they have the clear potential to affect the behavior of any who believe them.
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Edited to acknowledge the point make by Honorentheos down thread.

[_Maksutov]

Very interesting, DrW. Mormons began forming paramilitary groups early on. Few religious leaders in American history surrounded themselves with the symbols and the actual instruments of militancy as Joseph Smith did. How many religious include ceremonies calling for vengeance on enemies and self-disembowelment? There is a dark, bloody, violent side to Mormonism that its members refuse to look at. They look away from Mountain Meadows, from the Laffertys, and from the loaded guns of a man guided by "God" in Oregon.



As a footnote, this man also spent time as LDS. His name was Robert Mathews and he was the founder and leader of a group variously called the Bruder Schweigen, the Phineas Priests and The Order. This violent group robbed armed bank cars and murdered people throughout the West. Mathews himself died in a battle with authorities in Whidbey Island.



Just as the South has had its Klan, the Mormons have had their Danites. Some folks out there like to fantasize being the next Hickman or Rockwell. Hope no one dies.


“Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities.”

― Voltaire, Questions sur les Miracles à M. Claparede, Professeur de Théologie à Genève, par un Proposant: Ou Extrait de Diverses Lettres de M. de Voltaire

[_Yahoo Bot]

On another thread, mentalgymnast and Huckelberry are trying to convince malkie and others as to the value of religious myth.

Jon Krakauer has written an enlightening article on that very subject in probing the motivations behind the Oregon Wildlife Refuge takeover.

Krakauer leaves no doubt that the Mormon myths are alive and well in the West and that the same nonsense that motivates the Bundys of today is that which motivated the Lafferties a generation ago.

As a glimpse into what kind of behavior a literal belief in the myths of Mormonism can lead to, he cites passages from his non-fiction work "Under the Banner of Heaven".

Dan Lafferty isn't reticent about describing exactly what happened on July 24, 1984. He says that shortly after noon, he, Ron, and the two drifters who had been traveling with them, Ricky Knapp and Chip Carnes, drove to the apartment of his youngest brother, Allen, in American Fork.

Inside the brick duplex he found his 15-month-old niece, Erica, standing in her crib, smiling at him. "I spoke to her for a minute," Lafferty recalls. "I told her, 'I'm not sure what this is all about, but apparently it's God's will that you leave this world; perhaps we can talk about it later.'" And then he killed her with a ten-inch boning knife.

After dispatching Erica, he calmly walked into the kitchen and used the same knife to kill the baby's mother. He insists, very convincingly, that he has never felt any regret for the deed, or shame.

Like his older brother, Ron, Dan Lafferty was brought up as a pious Mormon. "I've always been interested in God and the Kingdom of God," he says. "It's been the center of my focus since I was a young child." And he is certain God intended for him to kill Brenda and Erica Lafferty: "It was like someone had taken me by the hand that day and led me comfortably through everything that happened. Ron had received a revelation from God that these lives were to be taken. I was the one who was supposed to do it. And if God wants something to be done, it will be done. You don't want to offend Him by refusing to do His work."

These murders are shocking for a host of reasons, but no aspect of the crimes is more disturbing than Lafferty's complete and determined absence of remorse.

There was no remorse, of course, because the Lafferties truly believed in Brigham Young's Mormon myth of Blood Atonement.

The main point here is that, while MG and others may claim that these myths are in Mormonism's past, they are still motivating highly visible behaviors that the public attributes to Mormonism. Worse yet, they have the clear potential to affect the behavior of any who believe them.

The plural of Lafferty is not Lafferties.

I represented one of the "Lafferties." Krakauer interviewed only one of them. Plus, he admitted in his book to often relying upon a minority view.

He's often wrong. You lack command of the King's English. I often tell my kids of the advantages of a university education; they won't make errors like yours.

[_Symmachus]

There was no remorse, of course, because the Lafferties truly believed in Brigham Young's Mormon myth of Blood Atonement.

The main point here is that, while MG and others may claim that these myths are in Mormonism's past, they are still motivating highly visible behaviors that the public attributes to Mormonism. Worse yet, they have the clear potential to affect the behavior of any who believe them.

These seem like outliers, not norms, and so they don't really say much useful about Mormon myths as a category. I doubt most Mormons even know about "blood atonement."

[_Symmachus]

You lack command of the King's English. I often tell my kids of the advantages of a university education; they won't make errors like yours.

There is currently no king, so it's the Queen's English, but really no one who proudly wears such barbarous Latinity as a tagline should be pontificating about correct grammar in any language.

[Guest]

Just as the South has had its Klan, the Mormons have had their Danites. Some folks out there like to fantasize being the next Hickman or Rockwell. Hope no one dies.

“Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities.”

― Voltaire, Questions sur les Miracles à M. Claparede, Professeur de Théologie à Genève, par un Proposant: Ou Extrait de Diverses Lettres de M. de Voltaire

Sadly, we have at least one of those fantasizing right here on our board.

I live my faith, I'm not a hypcrite. Yes, online a little in my condemnations, doesn't change the fact that I'm absolutely truthful, I'm absolutely fighting for what's right, etc. Your version of "hypocrite" is like calling a cop, a strong citizen, a soldier etc. a hypocrite because they have to sometimes use violence, kill, etc. against others. If you haven't figured it out yet..... I'm one of those people. I'm not a prophet, Jesus, a Saint, or otherwise, I'm a Peaceful Warrior. I don't care if you don't like it or not. I know which side I fight for, and my heart, and my soul and character. You could maybe say I'm an even more moral and better version of Porter Rockwell.

He also hopes to carry a concealed weapon soon; if they give him a permit he'll say he deserved it; if they don't he says he has a right to concealed carry and he'll do it anyway.

Lucky for us he currently says he's too exhausted to poop, so we're safe for now.

[_Lemmie]

You lack command of the King's English. I often tell my kids of the advantages of a university education; they won't make errors like yours.

There is currently no king, so it's the Queen's English, but really no one who proudly wears such barbarous Latinity as a tagline should be pontificating about correct grammar in any language.

Nor should he be telling impressionable youngsters that a university education is for learning plurals so they can never ever make an auto-correct spelling error.

[_Maksutov]

There was no remorse, of course, because the Lafferties truly believed in Brigham Young's Mormon myth of Blood Atonement.

The main point here is that, while MG and others may claim that these myths are in Mormonism's past, they are still motivating highly visible behaviors that the public attributes to Mormonism. Worse yet, they have the clear potential to affect the behavior of any who believe them.

These seem like outliers, not norms, and so they don't really say much useful about Mormon myths as a category. I doubt most Mormons even know about "blood atonement."

Maybe not, but what do they say? Is there anything to be learned from them? Can we expect every tribe to come up with a justification for the inevitable violence of intertribal conflict? Christians refer to their "prince of peace" and yet Jesus also used militant imagery. The Book of Mormon is full of it. Although Mormon militancy appears to be in the past, Mormons are also very friendly to gun ownership and both open and concealed carry--except in churches and temples. If you were to combine the Mormon command and control structure, local base of people and plentiful weapons, you have a potent fighting force during civil unrest.

Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses,Vol. 1, pg. 171-172, July 31, 1853:

"As for this people fostering to themselves that the day has come for them
to sell their guns and ammunition to their enemies, and sit down to sleep in
peace, they will find themselves deceived, and before they know, they will
sleep until they are slain. They have got to carry weapons with them, to be
ready to send their enemies to hell in cross lots, whether they be
Lamanites, or mobs who may come to take their lives, or destroy their
property. We must be so prepared that they dare not come to us in a hostile
manner without being assured they will meet a vigorous resistance, and ten
to one they will meet their grave."

[_Symmachus]

Maybe not, but what do they say? Is there anything to be learned from them? Can we expect every tribe to come up with a justification for the inevitable violence of intertribal conflict? Christians refer to their "prince of peace" and yet Jesus also used militant imagery. The Book of Mormon is full of it. Although Mormon militancy appears to be in the past, Mormons are also very friendly to gun ownership and both open and concealed carry--except in churches and temples. If you were to combine the Mormon command and control structure, local base of people and plentiful weapons, you have a potent fighting force during civil unrest.

What we are seeing is militants who are also Mormons, not militancy motivated by Mormonism. I think Mormon militancy is in the past; no way do the bullying temper tantrums of these man-children in Oregon compare to anything in 19th century Mormonism in any way that tells us anything meaningful about Mormon violence beyond the fact that Mormons who are militant can find justification for it. But then, most people can invent justifications for everything they do. And what they are saying is much more in line with a certain strand of conservatism that certainly has connections to Mormonism but is overwhelmingly not Mormon and certainly not motivated by Mormon myth. It's a certain brand of conservative myth. Mormons probably are friendly to gun ownership, but that's true of a lot of people in red states and even a lot of blue-ish states like Colorado.

It does seem the Laffertys (are you sure the correct plural is not "Laffertae," YahooBot?) were motivated by religious belief, from what little I know of the case. But since so few Mormons these days kill their family under the claim that god told them to, it tells us more about the Laffertys than it does about Mormon religious belief in a general way.

[_DrW]

The plural of Lafferty is not Lafferties.

Duly noted and fixed.