Water Dog wrote:While I mostly agree with this, I find the 3-5 cups number a bit dubious. There are a lot of people that are no-shit addicted to caffeine. They get migranes like crazy. I see same thing with people who drink their coke or whatever. It's not about the coffee, but the caffeine. 5 cups a day, that's a LOT. A cup a day seems healthy to me. Or a couple cups/week.
Dude. What's worse? 3-5 cups of coffee a day, or obesity? Nothing about caffeine can even approximate obesity when it comes to ill health effects.
Anyway. Can you clarify vis a vis the letter why coffee is bad and Sanka is ok even though Coke is ok so it can't be the caffeine content, no?
- Doc
In the face of madness, rationality has no power - Xiao Wang, US historiographer, 2287 AD.
Every record...falsified, every book rewritten...every statue...has been renamed or torn down, every date...altered...the process is continuing...minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Ideology is always right.
Water Dog wrote:While I mostly agree with this, I find the 3-5 cups number a bit dubious. There are a lot of people that are no-shit addicted to caffeine. They get migranes like crazy. I see same thing with people who drink their coke or whatever. It's not about the coffee, but the caffeine. 5 cups a day, that's a LOT. A cup a day seems healthy to me. Or a couple cups/week.
So, let me get this straight. You are saying that you know more about the health effects of coffee consumption than the more than 40 highly qualified scientists, epidemiologists, and physicians who wrote and reviewed the 2015 Dietary Guidelines Report. Is that about right?
Did you even open the link to the USDA Report? Assuming that you did not, here is a review paper on the subject that is a bit more accessible.
Last edited by Guest on Mon Feb 01, 2016 1:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
David Hume: "---Mistakes in philosophy are merely ridiculous, those in religion are dangerous."
DrW: "Mistakes in science are learning opportunities and are eventually corrected."
Dear LORD!! What if you accidental catch some hot water in your mouth while showering???
I can laugh at jokes like anybody, but what, sincerely, is the point of asshat comments like this? Do you want to actually discuss the subject or turn this place into a damned late night comedy show? It just gets really juvenile comment after comment.
When Joseph Smith revealed the WoW it stated that hot drinks were not for the body.
You stated that you believe the WoW should be followed as it was originally revealed.
Oh, my bad, so you think it is nothing more than advisement. No requirement to obey it, right?
The Mormon church is a damned late night comedy show, at least to many of us..
New name: Boaz The most viewed "ignored" poster in Shady Acres® !
Coffee is a much better way to get your daily dose of caffeine than are carbonated drinks to which caffeine is added. Along with caffeine, roasted coffee beans are loaded with alkaloids and polyphenols (many of which are good anti-oxidants). As can be assumed by the differences in taste, coffee chemistry is greatly affected by the degree to which the beans are roasted, as well as the provenance of the beans themselves.
Below is a gas chromatogram in which some of the major volatile constituents in coffee have been separated and identified. In total more than 1,000 constituents have been identified in roasted coffee beans over the years.
Polyphenols are not particularly volatile and are therefore not well represented in this gas chromatogram. Polyphenols are more suitably separated and analyzed using liquid chromatography. Both gas and liquid chromatography are more effective analytical tools when coupled with mass spectrometry. There are any number of reasons why Mormon prophets would be a lot better off to get their caffeine from natural sources such as coffee or tea, as opposed to the Pepsi dispensing machine in the COB.
David Hume: "---Mistakes in philosophy are merely ridiculous, those in religion are dangerous."
DrW: "Mistakes in science are learning opportunities and are eventually corrected."
DrW wrote:So, let me get this straight. You are saying that you know more about the health effects of coffee consumption than the more than 40 highly qualified scientists, epidemiologists, and physicians who wrote and reviewed the 2015 Dietary Guidelines Report. Is that about right?
No, that is not right. I am not disagreeing with them at all, just as I'm confident they wouldn't disagree with me either. I'm making a statement about the limitations of those studies, many dozens of which I have read by the way. These studies, as you know, are not a hard science to begin with. They consist primarily of surveys of people from all walks of life, which then get statistically analyzed to observe correlations, etc. You know all this. They perform a broad survey over time and then try to isolate the data as best they can. Consequently they end up with pools that are still pretty diverse, like 3 to 5 cups a day, which in of itself is a wide range. There is a difference between saying coffee consumption has been inversely correlated with liver cirrhosis among this certain body of people we surveyed and saying that there is no negative side-effect associated with coffee at all.
Using my own common sense, I can look around and see people who consume large amounts of caffeine (in various forms) and observe the impact it has on them. I see a lot of people who seem dysfunctional and can't do anything until they've had their red bull or their coke or their cup of joe or whatever. They complain of headaches. They use the energy boost as a means of avoiding having to discipline themselves. They become dependent on it. Heavy consumption from time to time in a special circumstance is one thing, but living like this day in day out, I don't see it as being healthy.
DrW wrote:Perhaps you should read a bit more on the subject before you grace the world with your learned opinion.
Reactionary, much?
Noted. (Reactionary comment was removed from my post at 9:55 before I saw this one.)
Last edited by Guest on Mon Feb 01, 2016 2:36 am, edited 2 times in total.
David Hume: "---Mistakes in philosophy are merely ridiculous, those in religion are dangerous."
DrW: "Mistakes in science are learning opportunities and are eventually corrected."
Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:Dude. What's worse? 3-5 cups of coffee a day, or obesity?
Like I said on the other thread, in my opinion, most Mormons are breaking the WOW. And in my opinion it is a great offense, a profound dereliction of duty on the part of the leaders, that the WOW has been culturally neutered the way it has. Members have been infantilized and fooled into believing that they will be blessed with health for following these childlike rules. The pure form of the WOW, the spirit of the law, is completely different and requires far more discipline. And it is only through that discipline that they will actually see those health benefits they are promised.
Do you take seriously Hyrum Smith's sermon and subsequent canonization in the CHI that tea falls under the WoW, or is good to go?
- Doc
In the face of madness, rationality has no power - Xiao Wang, US historiographer, 2287 AD.
Every record...falsified, every book rewritten...every statue...has been renamed or torn down, every date...altered...the process is continuing...minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Ideology is always right.
What are the Word of Wisdom requirements to get a temple recommend?
"Jesus gave us the gospel, but Satan invented church. It takes serious evil to formalize faith into something tedious and then pile guilt on anyone who doesn’t participate enthusiastically." - Robert Kirby
Beer makes you feel the way you ought to feel without beer. -- Henry Lawson
The only official interpretation of “hot drinks” (D&C 89:9) in the Word of Wisdom is the statement made by early Church leaders that the term “hot drinks” means tea and coffee.
Members should not use any substance that contains illegal drugs. Nor should members use harmful or habit-forming substances except under the care of a competent physician.
So, maybe it's the temperature that gets 'em off the hook? If that's the case then cut my vodka with some water! See? It's no longer a "strong drink"!!
- Doc
In the face of madness, rationality has no power - Xiao Wang, US historiographer, 2287 AD.
Every record...falsified, every book rewritten...every statue...has been renamed or torn down, every date...altered...the process is continuing...minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Ideology is always right.
What are the Word of Wisdom requirements to get a temple recommend?
The consensus among the self identified faithful here would seem to be that the decision as to worthiness when it comes to the WoW is pretty much up to the individual being interviewed.
David Hume: "---Mistakes in philosophy are merely ridiculous, those in religion are dangerous."
DrW: "Mistakes in science are learning opportunities and are eventually corrected."
Water Dog wrote:While I mostly agree with this, I find the 3-5 cups number a bit dubious. There are a lot of people that are no-shit addicted to caffeine. They get migranes like crazy. I see same thing with people who drink their coke or whatever. It's not about the coffee, but the caffeine. 5 cups a day, that's a LOT. A cup a day seems healthy to me. Or a couple cups/week.
Dude. What's worse? 3-5 cups of coffee a day, or obesity? Nothing about caffeine can even approximate obesity when it comes to ill health effects.
Anyway. Can you clarify vis a vis the letter why coffee is bad and Sanka is ok even though Coke is ok so it can't be the caffeine content, no?
- Doc
There are certainly people who are addicted to caffeine. I would call this unwise behavior on their part, but not a sin. When I fall off the bandwagon with sugar I tend to fall off hardcore and binge, and it feels to me like an addiction. I guess some of us have our various crosses to bear.
As far as the letter from the OP and current church policy, what a freaking joke. According to these a$$clowns who claim to speak on behalf of the Creator of the Universe, I could pour a cup of Sanka, add half a crushed NoDoz tablet to it, and be perfectly legal, so long as I didn't drink it in a pattern of behavior that would put me at risk for addiction. A cup of ordinary coffee, however, would be something that makes Elohim cry for my soul.
Mormonism ceased being a compelling topic for me when I finally came to terms with its transformation from a personality cult into a combination of a real estate company, a SuperPac, and Westboro Baptist Church. - Kishkumen
