DiscussMormonism.com

To this day I still remember my mother outfitted in that god awful temple garb. It was just... Embarrassing. Combine that with the Church's penchant to turn the funeral into a missionary lesson I got exactly zero closure out of it.

- Doc

moinmoin wrote: ...

Are you suggesting that no funeral should be arranged unless all extended family have an opportunity to veto it?

Clearly nothing so foolish is being suggested.

moinmoin wrote:

Blixa wrote:]

It did not used to be this way.

That's very possible, but it has been since I can remember (I'm 40).

I'm not sure that the LDS funerals were all that much different in the hypothetical pre-bishop control days.

Ah. Any experience that did not occur in your own environment in your adult lifetime is 'hypothetical'.

moinmoin wrote:

Chap wrote:Yeah, of course. That's why we never hear any complaints from people on the internet about how the LDS funerals of their loved ones were conducted by those in charge.

Oh, well. If there are complaints on the internet . . ..

Yup, take no notice. Anything like that is probably made up by people hostile to Mormonism. Anybody who had a problem with church policy about funerals being an opportunity for talking about the church rather than the deceased would go right up to their bishop and tell them.

http://lds.about.com/od/beliefsdoctrine ... nerals.htm

General Church Guidelines for Funerals

Keep in mind that these guidelines should be followed, regardless of local cultures and traditions.

...

There are no rituals, customs or ordinances associated with death in the gospel of Jesus Christ. None should be adopted from other cultures, religions or groups.
A funeral is a church service. It should be conducted as such. This means it should be dignified, simple and oriented toward the gospel, while retaining a certain solemnity.
Funerals are an opportunity to teach gospel principles that bring comfort to the living, such as the Atonement and the Plan of Salvation (Happiness.)
...

...
The Role the Bishop Should Play

The Bishop works closely with the family when a death takes place. There are things he must do and things he is at liberty to do.

What the Bishop Must Do:

The Bishop is primarily responsible for ensuring all guidelines are followed.
...

Ensure the service is simple and dignified while teaching gospel truths.
...

Inform the family that no family member is required to speak or participate in the service.
Ensure that tributes to the deceased are not inappropriate, excessive or too long.

Church policy and procedure for funerals can be found in Handbook 2, chapter 18.
...

I've only been to 1 Mormon funeral and like 12 catholic funerals and catholic funerals are so much worse.

moinmoin wrote:

sock puppet wrote:Does a bishop make sure that each member of the family wants a "Mormon funeral" before interjecting himself in this way?

Of course not. The funeral is arranged with the next of kin. For example, my funeral last week involved an octogenerian high priesth. His widow and their children (three kids) all had direct input (they were the ones who didn't want to speak, and wanted ward members to do all the prayers, talks, and music), but we didn't ask if there were perhaps siblings or grandchildren who would object to the service, and whose blessing we needed to seek.

Are you suggesting that no funeral should be arranged unless all extended family have an opportunity to veto it?

I am suggesting that if the decedent himself did not make the plans, then the funeral should be conducted in accordance with the lowest common denominators among all of the immediate family so as to be inclusive and not offensive. The decedent was the immediate family member of each of them, not just the LDS active ones.

I have a question wrote: Mormon funerals tend to be conducted and participated in by people who really knew the deceased, rather than a remote Priest or Pastor. But I do find the proselytizing a little out of place if it is too blatantly done.

That was my experience with the service that I attended. In comparison to another of non-Mormon Christian faith, it was much more approachable than I would have expected it to be. I have a hard time imagining how lessons in well-known doctrine would have improved that experience or been more respectful of the attendees efforts to be there.

MetalSlasher wrote:I've only been to 1 Mormon funeral and like 12 catholic funerals and catholic funerals are so much worse.

My experience is just the opposite--1 Catholic funeral and dozens of Mormon funerals. In fact, the Catholic funeral is the one and only time I've ever been in a Catholic church unless you count as a gawking tourist walking around the perimeter of the interior of an operating cathedral like the Notre Dame in Paris while parishioners were praying and a wedding being conducted.

The only theology invoked by the priest were assurances that the decedent was no longer in pain or suffering (he had died a slow death from stomach cancer). Two family members spoke, without so much as a whiff of religion mentioned by either of them. Much more closure for me as an attendee than I'd had regarding the loss than at Mormon funerals. For a few hours afterwards, I wondered if there were residual Christian strands running through my thought processes. An experience I've not had in attending a Mormon funeral, the occasional baptism, baby blessing or mission farewell/report that I have since apostatizing.

When my grandmother passed away we held the funeral at the Spilsbury mortuary chapel in St. George. It was a truly wonderful funeral. My atheist brother spoke, I played "Danny Boy" on my saxophone (a song I played at her request for my grandfather's funeral when I was a young boy), and there were some LDS friends of hers that came and sang. It was nice to not have to deal with a bishop enforcing LDS cultural conformity on us.

The interesting thing is that it was my TBM parents who chose to do it there rather than have it in an LDS building. It seems that it was worth the extra money to them to not have a bishop wielding veto power over the particulars of this event that was sacred to them. I can think of no other reason that they didn't hold it in an LDS chapel.

Sethbag wrote:

moinmoin wrote:I think your experience is anecdotal, sockpuppet. It really depends on the bishop, who has control over the funeral service. I'm currently a bishop for the second time right now, and my experience is that bishops sit down with family and do everything they can to meet the family's wishes (within reason). I've nixed 30 songs/no speakers, but I have let non-member family speak.

I find it kind of subtly disturbing that you feel it is you who should be in charge here. You "have let" non-member family speak - how generous of you, the unrelated guy, to "let" non-Mormon family members speak at their own kinsman's funeral.

Mormonism is a voluntary organization, whose leaders have zero power or authority over anybody save whatever the members voluntarily cede to them. So I guess what disturbs me the most is that member families voluntarily give up control of their own family member's funeral to someone else. I guess they aren't kidding when they vow, in the temple, to give up themselves, their time, and talents to the church. They even give up their own funerals.

No baker's hat for me either. I want to be buried in my Army service uniform. It means far more to me than Joseph's silly Masonic costume cum uniform of the priesthood.

Wow.... You people are truly immoral.

1. It's a funeral at an LDS Church, thus a Bishop has every right to "have a say" in how a funeral goes.

2. He was saying "have let" in the general sense, not in the literal sense. He doesn't say who can and can't speak, though if it detracts from the standards of the Church, then of course he can have a say, IT'S THE CHURCH....

For people that claim to be so moral and intellectual, and understanding the English Language (you Blixa) you people are truly ignorant and bigoted.

fetchface wrote:When my grandmother passed away we held the funeral at the Spilsbury mortuary chapel in St. George. It was a truly wonderful funeral. My atheist brother spoke, I played "Danny Boy" on my saxophone (a song I played at her request for my grandfather's funeral when I was a young boy), and there were some LDS friends of hers that came and sang. It was nice to not have to deal with a bishop enforcing LDS cultural conformity on us.

The interesting thing is that it was my TBM parents who chose to do it there rather than have it in an LDS building. It seems that it was worth the extra money to them to not have a bishop wielding veto power over the particulars of this event that was sacred to them. I can think of no other reason that they didn't hold it in an LDS chapel.

That was very nice, and inclusive, of your TBM parents.

My LDS MIL passed away in 1995, her eldest son gave the eulogy and all her sons were pallbearers, including my husband who was and still is an ex-mormon. It was a very Mormon funeral, but it was also a nice funeral.

My LDS BIL (MIL's eldest son who gave the eulogy above) passed away in 2005, way too young, and all his children except for one talked at the funeral. I (a non-member) also talked at the funeral (even though I was extremely nervous to talk in public). My friend (the decedent's wife) asked me to talk. My BIL lived in a small town and the funeral was conducted outside so that there would be room for everyone to attend. At the time of his death he was the Branch President, so the previous BP helped with the funeral. It obviously was a Mormon funeral, especially at the graveside, but nevertheless is was a nice funeral.

My LDS FIL passed away in 2009. He also had a Mormon funeral, but by the time he passed away, he had remarried a non-Mormon and spent a lot of time with her children and family. His step-daughter spoke at his funeral.

I've been to a couple other Mormon funerals, they had their own style and some had the "Mormon gospel" talk but nothing really memorable. They were Mormon funerals held for true believing Mormons. I'm sure all the decedents would have approved.

And I must agree with moinmoin that an all music funeral with no eulogy or talking would be strange, even for non-Mormons.

M.