D. Todd Christofferson opens can of worms...

The catch-all forum for general topics and debates. Minimal moderation. Rated PG to PG-13.
Post Reply
_I have a question
_Emeritus
Posts: 9749
Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2015 8:01 am

D. Todd Christofferson opens can of worms...

Post by _I have a question »

https://www.Facebook.com/LDS.d.todd.christofferson/

I’m not sure what is behind the increasing attacks upon the Prophet Joseph Smith in our current time, but one thing is for sure: it is increasing. I want to declare my witness of this great prophet.
In his youth, this pure-hearted boy came to know Jesus Christ. He not only knew of Him, but he knew Him. There were more than one or two occasions when he communed with Jehovah. He could stand as one who knew and bore witness of the identity of Jesus Christ. He heard from the mouth of God Himself that Jesus was His Son. He never faltered in that witness.
There is no reasonable explanation for the existence of the Book of Mormon other than what the Prophet said—that he was given the power to translate it. No human in his condition could have originated the book.
Joseph Smith never claimed to be perfect, and he told the Saints that, but he fulfilled his mission. He fulfilled his commission. He did what God ordained him and asked him to do.
He now stands with the Savior having given a good report. May we recognize the debt of gratitude we owe him and thank our Heavenly Father for this obedient prophet who restored the gospel of Christ.


The comments are interesting.
“When we are confronted with evidence that challenges our deeply held beliefs we are more likely to reframe the evidence than we are to alter our beliefs. We simply invent new reasons, new justifications, new explanations. Sometimes we ignore the evidence altogether.” (Mathew Syed 'Black Box Thinking')
_fetchface
_Emeritus
Posts: 1526
Joined: Thu Sep 18, 2014 5:38 pm

Re: D. Todd Christofferson opens can of worms...

Post by _fetchface »

I made a snarky comment the day this was posted and was surprised that it remained up:

Finding out about Joseph marrying teen orphan foster daughters and other men's wives after years of faithful service sure did not help my faith. Maybe if church leaders (cough cough) portrayed Joseph a little more realistically in conference talks there wouldn't be so many who feel so betrayed by the facts.

I'm also surprised that the top comment is critical.

Comments with links seem to be deleted automatically as I think are comments with swearing. But comment moderation seems more reserved than I would have expected it to be.
Ubi Dubium Ibi Libertas
My Blog: http://untanglingmybrain.blogspot.com/
_Chap
_Emeritus
Posts: 14190
Joined: Mon Jun 11, 2007 10:23 am

Re: D. Todd Christofferson opens can of worms...

Post by _Chap »

I have a question wrote:The comments are interesting.


They are almost all critical, and sharply so. Most posters identify themselves as being members or former members of the church.

Kudos to whoever is monitoring that page and leaving them up.
Zadok:
I did not have a faith crisis. I discovered that the Church was having a truth crisis.
Maksutov:
That's the problem with this supernatural stuff, it doesn't really solve anything. It's a placeholder for ignorance.
_MetalSlasher
_Emeritus
Posts: 599
Joined: Wed Sep 30, 2015 11:37 pm

Re: D. Todd Christofferson opens can of worms...

Post by _MetalSlasher »

It's weird to see so many negative posts on an apostle's Facebook page.
_Quasimodo
_Emeritus
Posts: 11784
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2010 1:11 am

Re: D. Todd Christofferson opens can of worms...

Post by _Quasimodo »

Chap wrote:
I have a question wrote:The comments are interesting.


They are almost all critical, and sharply so. Most posters identify themselves as being members or former members of the church.

Kudos to whoever is monitoring that page and leaving them up.


I wonder how long that will last.
This, or any other post that I have made or will make in the future, is strictly my own opinion and consequently of little or no value.

"Faith is believing something you know ain't true" Twain.
_I have a question
_Emeritus
Posts: 9749
Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2015 8:01 am

Re: D. Todd Christofferson opens can of worms...

Post by _I have a question »

Perhaps he's now a little clearer on what's behind the attacks on Joseph...
“When we are confronted with evidence that challenges our deeply held beliefs we are more likely to reframe the evidence than we are to alter our beliefs. We simply invent new reasons, new justifications, new explanations. Sometimes we ignore the evidence altogether.” (Mathew Syed 'Black Box Thinking')
_Lemmie
_Emeritus
Posts: 10590
Joined: Sun Apr 05, 2015 7:25 pm

Re: D. Todd Christofferson opens can of worms...

Post by _Lemmie »

I find Zach's comment to be particularly devastating:
For those of you who are testifying that you know Joseph was a prophet regardless of what he did, how would you differentiate that testimony from those that have a testimony they believe comes from the Spirit of God that Muhammad was a prophet or that Warren Jeff's was a prophet? The essence of their prophetic callings seem to be opposed to one another to the point of being mutually exclusive, so how do you know your testimony is correct an theirs are wrong?
_Chap
_Emeritus
Posts: 14190
Joined: Mon Jun 11, 2007 10:23 am

Re: D. Todd Christofferson opens can of worms...

Post by _Chap »

Somebody should do a screengrab before it all disappears?
Zadok:
I did not have a faith crisis. I discovered that the Church was having a truth crisis.
Maksutov:
That's the problem with this supernatural stuff, it doesn't really solve anything. It's a placeholder for ignorance.
_Fence Sitter
_Emeritus
Posts: 8862
Joined: Sat Oct 02, 2010 3:49 pm

Re: D. Todd Christofferson opens can of worms...

Post by _Fence Sitter »

I have to wonder if the apostles understand the power of social networks. I am sure Christofferson felt he was talking an opportunity to share his testimony but I am not sure he understood that what he was doing was opening up a conversation over which he has no control, that in all likelihood would backfire on him.

There is a reason leadership do not participate in debates, allow interviews without strict control, forbid the recording of talks by apostles at conferences and other forums. They realize that any open dialogue will not favor their side.

The main respondent to Christofferson's Facebook post is his worst nightmare. A well meaning sincere and soft spoken member explain why she no longer believes the lies. Facebook is like F&T meeting but with opposing views.

Here is her response to Christofferson, which is worth the read.

Christie Christopherson on Facebook wrote: I used to have a testimony of Joseph Smith. But my testimony was based on the narrative that I learned while growing up in the church as well as what the church taught up until it released the essays on the church's web site. I was shocked and saddened to learn that my testimony was based on lies. I think that's a big factor in a lot of people's disdain for Joseph Smith. The translation wasn't what I thought it had been. The first vision wasn't what I thought it had been. The Book of Abraham wasn't what I thought it had been. And Joseph Smith's relationship with Emma wasn't anywhere near what I thought it had been.

So I am leaving my comment here not to diss anyone, but to share why many people have changed their opinion about Joseph Smith and have lost their testimony of him. I don't wish to lead anyone astray, but I want to provide insight.

If you know all of these horrible issues and still have a testimony of him, then that is your choice and your belief, and I respect that. But there are many of us who can no longer believe and have gone through a traumatic faith transition. Please respect those of us who now believe differently. Thank you.
"Any over-ritualized religion since the dawn of time can make its priests say yes, we know, it is rotten, and hard luck, but just do as we say, keep at the ritual, stick it out, give us your money and you'll end up with the angels in heaven for evermore."
_ldsfaqs
_Emeritus
Posts: 7953
Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2011 11:41 pm

Re: D. Todd Christofferson opens can of worms...

Post by _ldsfaqs »

Lemmie wrote:I find Zach's comment to be particularly devastating:
For those of you who are testifying that you know Joseph was a prophet regardless of what he did, how would you differentiate that testimony from those that have a testimony they believe comes from the Spirit of God that Muhammad was a prophet or that Warren Jeff's was a prophet? The essence of their prophetic callings seem to be opposed to one another to the point of being mutually exclusive, so how do you know your testimony is correct an theirs are wrong?


Not even.....

And the how is the same way a person knows the difference between an Apple and a Cabbage.
Evidence, Wisdom, Facts, Logic, and the Spirit.

Faith is the EVIDENCE of things not seen, but which are true.

Everything has degrees of evidences, issues, errors, falsehoods, etc. And everyone has what they have to the degree they have to judge.
Also, all Light, Truth, and Goodness comes from God..... so in the end, God judges ones heart and actions, not whether he knew the True Church.
The Church is the Authorized Candle, everyone must then choose for themselves.

So, your atheist anti-religion arguments are nothing more than petty ignorance and bigotry.
"Socialism is Rape and Capitalism is consensual sex" - Ben Shapiro
Post Reply