DaleandJessica Bunderson We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, our what they may. It is possible for members of the Church of Jesus Christ of latter-day Saints, to know that Joseph Smith was a prophet of God. The step by step "scientific experiment" for knowing if these words are true can be found in Alma 32. The key to the experiment is asking in faith, nothing wavering! This is an experiment that can't not prove to others, but only to one's self. It is; however, available to anyone who desires to know. If these things are true, then Joseph Smith was a Prophet of God. He was an imperfect man, but a Prophet of God. The ONLY reason for anyone to make attacks on one's beliefs and/or knowledge of that fact, is because he/she feels threatened and does not desire to know the truth. It does no good to counter those attacks! We are here to testify, not to prove. If we could prove it, there would be no faith! If we didn't need faith, there would be no agency. If we had no agency, there would be no purpose to us being here on this earth. There is a purpose for us to come to earth! That purpose is to gain experiences, and to come to learn and know God, and to prove our willingness to serve Him, through our FAITH in Him!
J Ward Moody The spirit will ALWAYS attend anyone who testifies that Joseph Smith was a prophet of God. Try it this next testimony meeting and see for yourself.
Nephi Lott The increasing attacks on Joseph Smith come in accordance with Lehi's remark that there must be opposition in all things. As the Church grows stronger, Satan's efforts to destroy it increase accordingly, and since the church is hinged primarily on the validity of the Book of Mormon and by extension, Joseph Smith, that is what the adversary targets the most. As such, it is also why there are increased and more frequent attacks on the Book of Mormon. If it were to ever be proven untrue, so would the church. However, the Book of Mormon is true, and so is the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. That much is certain.
consiglieri wrote:I am not sure the faithful realize they are being had by the following from "Helen Mar."
And then "Patty Sessions" comes in for the win.
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Helen Mar
Helen Mar I have a testimony of Joseph Smith to. I hear lots of my friends say bad things about him because he married 14 year old girls and other peoples wifes. I am 14 years old, so I think I can relate. It would be a big trial, but if Joseph Smith, Pres. Monson, Elder Christofferson, or any other priesthood leader asked me to be there wife right now cause God commanded it, I would do it. I know God commanded him to do it and he may require it again to test our faithfulness. I hope everyone will pray to get a testimony of it.
14 · 7 hrs
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Juraj Von Dena
Juraj Von Dena Thank you for your wonderful testimony Helen Mar. Simply amazing! Your faith is very strong. You are correct that you should follow God's commandments even if at that time you don't fully understand what is happening or why. Girls several months before their fifteenth birthday were getting married to men back then, it was normal.
2 · 6 hrs · Edited
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Helen Mar
Helen Mar Thanks Juraj. Its hard sometimes cause my friends say lots of bad things, but i know its true. thanks for you're nice words.
1 · 4 hrs · Edited
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Jim Anderson
Jim Anderson I appreciate your testimony, Helen. As a father of teenage daughters myself, I can't imagine how difficult it must have been for those young women and their parents. They most assuredly had strong, burning testimonies like yours. It would really test me if the Lord commanded one of the brethren to take one of my teenage daughters to be his wife. It would be even harder if the Lord required it of the brother to not reveal this marriage to his wife - as he sometimes did in the early days. I wouldn't understand it, but God's ways are not man's ways. As patriarch of my family, I would faithfully give any of my daughters to the brethren should it be required of the Lord.
3 · 4 hrs
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Helen Mar
Helen Mar Thanks Jim
4 hrs
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Patty Bartlett Sessions
Patty Bartlett Sessions I agree Helen. If I were called on to marry one of the fine brethren, I would in a heartbeat. I know that I'm already married, but the opportunity to marry someone like Thomas S. Monson is a God-given, sacred calling. I suggest everyone pray and find out for themselves the truth of the living gospel.
9 mins
LOL. I'm pretty sure all those comments are from trolls. I don't know any Mormon who actually admits that stuff on a public forum. In private, sure, but not in public.
Elder Cristofferson: It is you and the men who have preceded you in the Quorum of 12 that are responsible for many of us having this desire to increase attacks on Joseph Smith. Sometimes, we humans have such confirmation bias that we can't see ourselves as responsible for the problem. You and your brethren before you hid the unsavory Joseph Smith from us, and now, trying to be open about it, it comes as a shock to us who studied in Seminary and Institutes in times past that so little of truth was spoken to us in those classes. Please, quit denying your part in the problem. I acknowledge that you may not be personally responsible, but it is and was an organizational problem with your Church, a correlation that watered-down the truth. If you and your brethren will acknowledge that, it would go a long ways to ameliorating the attacks. You and the Quorum and First Presidency are like the Wizard of Oz, hiding behind the curtain, and when revealed, you look simply human instead of prophetic and apostolic. I wish you well in your much-needed introspection. Sincerely, Kevin Rex, former Mormon, former High Priest.
“When we are confronted with evidence that challenges our deeply held beliefs we are more likely to reframe the evidence than we are to alter our beliefs. We simply invent new reasons, new justifications, new explanations. Sometimes we ignore the evidence altogether.” (Mathew Syed 'Black Box Thinking')
Wow. The comments are unbelievable. Do you think they are read? Of course, Todd et.al. have to pretend like they don't read them, but I could definitely see Bednar privately poring other each post with whitened knuckles and a permanent snear, carefully writing down names and most uncharitably thinking up ugly endings for each person who dares disagree with his Mormon Royalty.
Lemmie wrote:Wow. The comments are unbelievable. Do you think they are read? Of course, Todd et.al. have to pretend like they don't read them, but I could definitely see Bednar privately poring other each post with whitened knuckles and a permanent snear, carefully writing down names and most uncharitably thinking up ugly endings for each person who dares disagree with his Mormon Royalty.
What's interesting is that people are posting challenging responses under their own names. The realization that people just aren't afraid of speaking their mind to The Brethren is surely the biggest worry. That people don't see them as special, as people to be obeyed etc is going to give them pause. Or it should. The comments section is confirmation that the Apostles are failing in their responsibility to convince people of the truthfulness of Mormonism. Especially amongst the people who have gone as far as joining the Church.
“When we are confronted with evidence that challenges our deeply held beliefs we are more likely to reframe the evidence than we are to alter our beliefs. We simply invent new reasons, new justifications, new explanations. Sometimes we ignore the evidence altogether.” (Mathew Syed 'Black Box Thinking')
I just had a gander at that Facebook post, and of course DCP has no chimed in with his sycophantic agreement. Maybe he hopes to fawn his way back into the leadership's good graces or something.
Mormonism ceased being a compelling topic for me when I finally came to terms with its transformation from a personality cult into a combination of a real estate company, a SuperPac, and Westboro Baptist Church. - Kishkumen
Lemmie wrote:Wow. The comments are unbelievable. Do you think they are read? Of course, Todd et.al. have to pretend like they don't read them, but I could definitely see Bednar privately poring other each post with whitened knuckles and a permanent snear, carefully writing down names and most uncharitably thinking up ugly endings for each person who dares disagree with his Mormon Royalty.
What's interesting is that people are posting challenging responses under their own names. The realization that people just aren't afraid of speaking their mind to The Brethren is surely the biggest worry. That people don't see them as special, as people to be obeyed etc is going to give them pause. Or it should. The comments section is confirmation that the Apostles are failing in their responsibility to convince people of the truthfulness of Mormonism. Especially amongst the people who have gone as far as joining the Church.
What I think is weird, too (and maybe I've missed it), but often when something like this happens, a blog article or two will pop up defending whatever PR-misstep has happened. I haven't seen anything defending Christofferson's post yet. Christofferson's thoughts were posted 5 days ago now.
Trimble, you ignorant sack of rhinoceros puss. The only thing more obvious than your lack of education is the foul stench that surrounds you.
Lemmie wrote:Here's another great exchange from the comments:
Daryl Jensen: There is a perfectly reasonable explanation for the Book of Mormon. It is a work of fiction by someone with an active imagination. February 5 at 6:52am
Marty Jensen Have you read the Book of Mormon Daryl? February 6 at 10:50pm
Daryl Jensen Yes, I read it 12 times while on my mission. 1997-1999 Jamaica Kingston. I was a faithful Mormon until I was about 25, when I started to realize it is all made up.
Mozart wrote his first musical pieces at age 5. Why couldn't Joseph Smith have dictated the Book of Mormon at age 24?
Elder Cristofferson: It is you and the men who have preceded you in the Quorum of 12 that are responsible for many of us having this desire to increase attacks on Joseph Smith. Sometimes, we humans have such confirmation bias that we can't see ourselves as responsible for the problem. You and your brethren before you hid the unsavory Joseph Smith from us, and now, trying to be open about it, it comes as a shock to us who studied in Seminary and Institutes in times past that so little of truth was spoken to us in those classes. Please, quit denying your part in the problem. I acknowledge that you may not be personally responsible, but it is and was an organizational problem with your Church, a correlation that watered-down the truth. If you and your brethren will acknowledge that, it would go a long ways to ameliorating the attacks. You and the Quorum and First Presidency are like the Wizard of Oz, hiding behind the curtain, and when revealed, you look simply human instead of prophetic and apostolic. I wish you well in your much-needed introspection. Sincerely, Kevin Rex, former Mormon, former High Priest.
From the comments, we have now reached the point of Poe's Law:
Brett Jensen: He was such a loving man, it took 33 women to contain his love. He even loved and married 14 year old girls and wives of his apostles he sent overseas. Clearly a man of pure intent and love that few of us could match.
Likes: 220 · February 4 at 2:19pm · Edited
Travis Cowart: Just a few months shy of 15! It's okay, give Brother Joseph a break!
Likes:43 · February 5 at 4:37pm
Hannah Cowan: And that makes it ok? He sounds sick and twisted
7 · February 5 at 8:19pm
Jeremy Nicola: Hannah, your sarcasm detector is broken. wink emoticon
17 · February 6 at 3:16am
Brett Jensen: Poe's law has been enacted here
3 · February 6 at 3:47am
Mai-Liis Gilded: 33 wives? Seriously? And that's a suitable religion for you and your children? It's like the American presidents: What you vote for, you deserve to get.
8 · February 6 at 4:2am
Amber Mehresh: But remember, some of these marriages were for time only, and others for time and all eternity. Somehow that means he didn't, you know, "do the deed".
