Some have speculated time travel was involved with Joseph's receiving the Golden tablets, because in a 19th century painting depiction his handling the gold tablets bear a strong resemblance to CD roms.
Has anyone here encountered this theory before? LOL. Just when you think you've heard it all, proof that the incredulous will always be with us.
5. Compact disc case from the 1800's
http://i.imgur.com/LceNKBK.jpg
"This painting from the 1800s allegedly depicts Joseph Smith showing "gold plates" to 8 witnesses, and people have been saying these are actually compact disc cases.
Coolinterestingstuff.com says: "Two modern cd-roms are documented and described (circa 600BCE) in the Book of Mormon. This establishes that [time travelers[ took two named mid 1990s cd-roms back to the past many times. It is noted in the Mormon chronicles that these objects were placed in a box. [Time travelers] turned up to Joseph Smith and showed him where that box was hidden. He opened the box, noted these artifacts, and had a picture drawn of him holding '2 plates'. He described the artifacts as 'here were two stones in silver bows-and these stones, fastened to a breastplate, constituted what is called the Urim and Thummim.'"
http://www.techeblog.com/index.php/tech ... ally-exist
Is also featured in a YouTube video titled "10 Strongest Signs of Time Travel"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tiow2F9BkIw
Were Golden Plates really CD roms from the Future?
Re: Were Golden Plates really CD roms from the Future?
From the future? Why not from another planet or another dimension?
There's a dude who claims that the Urantia Book is the sealed portion of the Book of Mormon. The Urantia Book has people flying around on giant birds kind of like Avatar, and galactic empires and lots of Star Wars-y stuff. Doesn't that sound like more fun than CD-ROMs?
At least it wasn't floppy drives.
There's a dude who claims that the Urantia Book is the sealed portion of the Book of Mormon. The Urantia Book has people flying around on giant birds kind of like Avatar, and galactic empires and lots of Star Wars-y stuff. Doesn't that sound like more fun than CD-ROMs?
At least it wasn't floppy drives.
"God" is the original deus ex machina. --Maksutov
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_deacon blues
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Re: Were Golden Plates really CD roms from the Future?
Hey! its possible.........
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_sunstoned
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Re: Were Golden Plates really CD roms from the Future?
So when Joseph Smith received the CDROMs from the 1990's time travelers, did they also include the Sony player to go with them? Maybe some extra batteries and a headset so he wouldn't disturb Emma during the translation process.
If they were a little forward thinking, they could have waited a decade and then given Joseph Smith the Book of Mormon as a mp3 with an iPod.
If they were a little forward thinking, they could have waited a decade and then given Joseph Smith the Book of Mormon as a mp3 with an iPod.
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Re: Were Golden Plates really CD roms from the Future?
It's no more absurd than the official story.
"We have taken up arms in defense of our liberty, our property, our wives, and our children; we are determined to preserve them, or die."
- Captain Moroni - 'Address to the Inhabitants of Canada' 1775
- Captain Moroni - 'Address to the Inhabitants of Canada' 1775
Re: Were Golden Plates really CD roms from the Future?
One thing the pundits don't realize is that the painting is only an artist's depiction of what the plates supposedly looked like. Since there was never an actual photograph or drawing of them for safekeeping, because they never existed in the first place.
Now if the same drawing had been painted with Joseph's rock in a hat, don't suppose it would've attracted the same attention... LOLOLOL.
And it was the rock (peepstone) in the hat that really did exist. On some days he took to sticking his face inside a bag, according to some eye witness accounts, when the hat wasn't available.
"Martin Harris, David Whitmer, and William Smith all agree that Joseph Smith used a seer stone and a hat in the translation process. Interestingly enough, an article in the January 1997 LDS Church publication Ensign leaves out any mention of the hat and deemphasizes the seer stone. In fact, LDS Apostle Neal Maxwell, who authored the article, quotes Apostle Orson Pratt from 1874 as saying that Smith relied less and less upon the seer stones the more he learned how to translate (pg. 39). It seems odd that God would provide these instruments and then allow the translator to have more freedom as the translation went on. And it seems extremely curious that Maxwell makes no reference to the hat. In fact, a picture on page 38 shows the dutiful Oliver Cowdery writing down the English translation while Smith appears to be translating. In this picture there is no sign of the so-called seer stones or the hat. What could be the reason for leaving these items out of a publicity painting except to distance the translation from the ocultic practices that really characterized the Book of Mormon translation! The use of similar types of seer stones, or peep stones as they were also called, was quite common among believers in folk magic during the time of Joseph Smith. There is plenty of evidence to show that Smith, the one whom Mormons claim God used to restore the “true” church, was quite fascinated with the occult, as were members of his immediate family.
According to a court record dated March 20, 1826, Smith was described as a “glass-looker,” a common scam in which the glass looker claimed to have the ability to find buried treasure (for a fee, of course). Obviously, many Mormons have tried to deny that Smith had anything to do with glass looking or money digging. Joseph F. Smith, Mormonism’s sixth president, concluded that such a title was used by enemies to injure the prophet’s credibility. He wrote:
“He was called a ‘money digger,’ and many other contemptuous things. If you will look at his history, and at the character of his parents, and surroundings, and consider the object of his life, you can discover how much consistency there was in the charges brought against him. All this was done to injure him. He was neither old nor a ‘money digger,’ nor an impostor, nor in any manner deserving of the epithets which they applied to him.”
The problem with Smith’s conclusion is that Joseph Smith admitted to being a money digger in an interview printed in the “Elders’ Journal” (v.1, num.2, pp.28-29). (See also The Documentary History of the Church 3:29, and the Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, pg.120.)
It seems apparent that the Book of Mormon was, in fact, brought about using an occultic method. If so many witnesses testify to Smith’s use of a hat and a magical rock, why don’t Mormon books and periodicals, for the sake of accuracy, emphasize the fact? Why do the pictures of Smith translating from the plates–as shown in the January 1997 Ensign–have him deep in thought rather than looking into a hat?
In our opinion, the answer to these questions stems from the fact that the earlier accounts are embarrassing to the LDS Church, so a better, more “faith-promoting” account has been proposed. Despite the early documentation, as provided by some of the witnesses of the actual translation, history has been revised to restore credibility to the original creation of the LDS Church. For instance, tenth LDS President Joseph Fielding Smith, who previously served as an LDS Church historian for 50 years, denied Joseph Smith’s use of the seer stone. He wrote:
“While the statement has been made by some writers that the Prophet Joseph Smith used a seer stone part of the time in his translating of the record, and information points to the fact that he did have in his possession such a stone, yet there is no authentic statement in the history of the Church which states that the use of such a stone was made in that translation. The information is all hearsay, and personally, I do not believe that this stone was used for this purpose. The reason I give for this conclusion is found in the statement of the Lord to the Brother of Jared as recorded in Ether 3:22-24.
“These stones, the Urim and Thummim which were given to the Brother of Jared, were preserved for this very purpose of translating the record, both of the Jaredites and the Nephites. Then again the Prophet was impressed by Moroni with the fact that these stones were given for that very purpose. It hardly seems reasonable to suppose that the Prophet would substitute something evidently inferior under these circumstances. It may have been so, but it is so easy for a story of this kind to be circulated due to the fact that the Prophet did possess a seer stone, which he may have used for some other purposes” (Doctrines of Salvation 3:225-226).
Apostle Maxwell says the translation process should strengthen the faith of the faithful Mormon. He writes:
“Our primary focus in studying the Book of Mormon should be on the principles of the gospel anyway, not on the process by which the book came forth. Yet because its coming so amply fulfilled Isaiah’s prophecy of a `marvelous work and a wonder,’ we may find strengthened faith in considering how marvelous and wondrous the translation was…” (Ensign, January 1997, pg. 39)
If this process should strengthen the believer’s testimony, then why isn’t the true process being told?
But Maxwell goes on. Although allowing for the possibility that seer stones could have been used by Smith, Maxwell says this did not mean Smith was translating letter by letter as the earlier witnesses suggest he did. If he was using these “divine instrumentalities” to translate the language into English,
“he was not necessarily and constantly scrutinizing the characters on the plates–the usual translation process of going back and forth between pondering an ancient text and providing a modern rendering…While the use of divine instrumentalities might also account for the rapid rate of translation, the Prophet sometimes may have used a less mechanical procedure. We simply do not know the details” (pg. 39).
What is interesting in this assertion is that Smith, whom Maxwell admits did not know any ancient languages and was said to be ignorant of the facts in his Bible, could have improved his translation abilities without becoming proficient in the language he was translating! It also goes against the explanations of the earlier witnesses.
Maxwell also makes it a point to concur with Emma Smith’s account that there was probably no blanket or curtain hung between Joseph Smith and his various scribes during this process. Maxwell feels that a curtain/separator was used only to partition off the living area to keep the translator and scribe from the eyes of visitors. Again the LDS Church seems to be revising its history. When Bill McKeever visited the restored Peter Whitmer cabin at Fayette (NY) in April of 1990, a curtain was hanging between two tables where the translation supposedly took place. In the adjacent visitor’s center a painting of Smith “translating” the plates also showed a curtain separating Smith and his scribe. Page 29 of the book, Meet the Mormons (1965 ed.), also shows a curtain separating Smith from his scribe Oliver Cowdery.
In conclusion, we feel that the move away from the actual facts of the translation process of the Book of Mormon demonstrates a lack of credibility on the part of LDS leaders. No doubt they understand that most people would balk in accepting the Book of Mormon if it was known to have been “translated” by using a magical rock and a hat. Eyewitness accounts clearly conflict with the image the LDS Church is currently attempting to portray. We pray that both the LDS people, and those investigating the LDS Church, will take a closer look at how this supposedly “sacred” book came about."
http://www.mrm.org/translation
Now if the same drawing had been painted with Joseph's rock in a hat, don't suppose it would've attracted the same attention... LOLOLOL.
And it was the rock (peepstone) in the hat that really did exist. On some days he took to sticking his face inside a bag, according to some eye witness accounts, when the hat wasn't available.
"Martin Harris, David Whitmer, and William Smith all agree that Joseph Smith used a seer stone and a hat in the translation process. Interestingly enough, an article in the January 1997 LDS Church publication Ensign leaves out any mention of the hat and deemphasizes the seer stone. In fact, LDS Apostle Neal Maxwell, who authored the article, quotes Apostle Orson Pratt from 1874 as saying that Smith relied less and less upon the seer stones the more he learned how to translate (pg. 39). It seems odd that God would provide these instruments and then allow the translator to have more freedom as the translation went on. And it seems extremely curious that Maxwell makes no reference to the hat. In fact, a picture on page 38 shows the dutiful Oliver Cowdery writing down the English translation while Smith appears to be translating. In this picture there is no sign of the so-called seer stones or the hat. What could be the reason for leaving these items out of a publicity painting except to distance the translation from the ocultic practices that really characterized the Book of Mormon translation! The use of similar types of seer stones, or peep stones as they were also called, was quite common among believers in folk magic during the time of Joseph Smith. There is plenty of evidence to show that Smith, the one whom Mormons claim God used to restore the “true” church, was quite fascinated with the occult, as were members of his immediate family.
According to a court record dated March 20, 1826, Smith was described as a “glass-looker,” a common scam in which the glass looker claimed to have the ability to find buried treasure (for a fee, of course). Obviously, many Mormons have tried to deny that Smith had anything to do with glass looking or money digging. Joseph F. Smith, Mormonism’s sixth president, concluded that such a title was used by enemies to injure the prophet’s credibility. He wrote:
“He was called a ‘money digger,’ and many other contemptuous things. If you will look at his history, and at the character of his parents, and surroundings, and consider the object of his life, you can discover how much consistency there was in the charges brought against him. All this was done to injure him. He was neither old nor a ‘money digger,’ nor an impostor, nor in any manner deserving of the epithets which they applied to him.”
The problem with Smith’s conclusion is that Joseph Smith admitted to being a money digger in an interview printed in the “Elders’ Journal” (v.1, num.2, pp.28-29). (See also The Documentary History of the Church 3:29, and the Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, pg.120.)
It seems apparent that the Book of Mormon was, in fact, brought about using an occultic method. If so many witnesses testify to Smith’s use of a hat and a magical rock, why don’t Mormon books and periodicals, for the sake of accuracy, emphasize the fact? Why do the pictures of Smith translating from the plates–as shown in the January 1997 Ensign–have him deep in thought rather than looking into a hat?
In our opinion, the answer to these questions stems from the fact that the earlier accounts are embarrassing to the LDS Church, so a better, more “faith-promoting” account has been proposed. Despite the early documentation, as provided by some of the witnesses of the actual translation, history has been revised to restore credibility to the original creation of the LDS Church. For instance, tenth LDS President Joseph Fielding Smith, who previously served as an LDS Church historian for 50 years, denied Joseph Smith’s use of the seer stone. He wrote:
“While the statement has been made by some writers that the Prophet Joseph Smith used a seer stone part of the time in his translating of the record, and information points to the fact that he did have in his possession such a stone, yet there is no authentic statement in the history of the Church which states that the use of such a stone was made in that translation. The information is all hearsay, and personally, I do not believe that this stone was used for this purpose. The reason I give for this conclusion is found in the statement of the Lord to the Brother of Jared as recorded in Ether 3:22-24.
“These stones, the Urim and Thummim which were given to the Brother of Jared, were preserved for this very purpose of translating the record, both of the Jaredites and the Nephites. Then again the Prophet was impressed by Moroni with the fact that these stones were given for that very purpose. It hardly seems reasonable to suppose that the Prophet would substitute something evidently inferior under these circumstances. It may have been so, but it is so easy for a story of this kind to be circulated due to the fact that the Prophet did possess a seer stone, which he may have used for some other purposes” (Doctrines of Salvation 3:225-226).
Apostle Maxwell says the translation process should strengthen the faith of the faithful Mormon. He writes:
“Our primary focus in studying the Book of Mormon should be on the principles of the gospel anyway, not on the process by which the book came forth. Yet because its coming so amply fulfilled Isaiah’s prophecy of a `marvelous work and a wonder,’ we may find strengthened faith in considering how marvelous and wondrous the translation was…” (Ensign, January 1997, pg. 39)
If this process should strengthen the believer’s testimony, then why isn’t the true process being told?
But Maxwell goes on. Although allowing for the possibility that seer stones could have been used by Smith, Maxwell says this did not mean Smith was translating letter by letter as the earlier witnesses suggest he did. If he was using these “divine instrumentalities” to translate the language into English,
“he was not necessarily and constantly scrutinizing the characters on the plates–the usual translation process of going back and forth between pondering an ancient text and providing a modern rendering…While the use of divine instrumentalities might also account for the rapid rate of translation, the Prophet sometimes may have used a less mechanical procedure. We simply do not know the details” (pg. 39).
What is interesting in this assertion is that Smith, whom Maxwell admits did not know any ancient languages and was said to be ignorant of the facts in his Bible, could have improved his translation abilities without becoming proficient in the language he was translating! It also goes against the explanations of the earlier witnesses.
Maxwell also makes it a point to concur with Emma Smith’s account that there was probably no blanket or curtain hung between Joseph Smith and his various scribes during this process. Maxwell feels that a curtain/separator was used only to partition off the living area to keep the translator and scribe from the eyes of visitors. Again the LDS Church seems to be revising its history. When Bill McKeever visited the restored Peter Whitmer cabin at Fayette (NY) in April of 1990, a curtain was hanging between two tables where the translation supposedly took place. In the adjacent visitor’s center a painting of Smith “translating” the plates also showed a curtain separating Smith and his scribe. Page 29 of the book, Meet the Mormons (1965 ed.), also shows a curtain separating Smith from his scribe Oliver Cowdery.
In conclusion, we feel that the move away from the actual facts of the translation process of the Book of Mormon demonstrates a lack of credibility on the part of LDS leaders. No doubt they understand that most people would balk in accepting the Book of Mormon if it was known to have been “translated” by using a magical rock and a hat. Eyewitness accounts clearly conflict with the image the LDS Church is currently attempting to portray. We pray that both the LDS people, and those investigating the LDS Church, will take a closer look at how this supposedly “sacred” book came about."
http://www.mrm.org/translation
Re: Were Golden Plates really CD roms from the Future?
Recently discovered painting of Jo translating the plates... I think this clinches it!
Riding on a speeding train; trapped inside a revolving door;
Lost in the riddle of a quatrain; Stuck in an elevator between floors.
One focal point in a random world can change your direction:
One step where events converge may alter your perception.
Lost in the riddle of a quatrain; Stuck in an elevator between floors.
One focal point in a random world can change your direction:
One step where events converge may alter your perception.
Re: Were Golden Plates really CD roms from the Future?
grindael wrote:Recently discovered painting of Jo translating the plates... I think this clinches it!
Truly a vision to behold!
Re: Were Golden Plates really CD roms from the Future?
Ol' Joe probably bought it off Ebay or Amazon. Must of had some good batteries too or he plugged it into a celestial current bush.
This is another sliver of faith for MG to hang on to. I await anxiously for another of his hypothetical theory threads.
a.k.a. Pokatator joined Oct 26, 2006 and permanently banned from MAD Nov 6, 2006
"Stop being such a damned coward and use your real name to own your position."
"That's what he gets for posting in his own name."
2 different threads same day 2 hours apart Yohoo Bat 12/1/2015
"Stop being such a damned coward and use your real name to own your position."
"That's what he gets for posting in his own name."
2 different threads same day 2 hours apart Yohoo Bat 12/1/2015
Re: Were Golden Plates really CD roms from the Future?
grindael wrote:Recently discovered painting of Jo translating the plates... I think this clinches it!
While I can't be sure - that bottle on the shelf - above Joe's head - on the far left - looks a lot like Snapple Iced Tea to me.
Hmmmm?
Peace,
Ceeboo